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Insulin prices have increased SO MUCH over the past 50 years, it's disgusting. The manufacturers' margins just keep climbing because they know they can raise pr

Insulin prices have increased SO MUCH over the past 50 years, it's disgusting. The manufacturers' margins just keep climbing because they know they can raise prices without consequence.

renewiltord 5y ago
Well, that's because the insulin has been getting better. You could always buy porcine insulin and shit. It's just not as good (side effects, harder to dose, etc.).
- pimeys 5y ago
  The best new analogs cost about 28 euros per 10ml bottle in Spain without insurance... Medicine, such as FIASP...
  - WillPostForFood 5y ago
    Europe is free riding on the US.
    - atlasunshrugged 5y ago
      I heard this argument somewhere (not just about medicine but also on defense, why they can have such lavish perks/holidays/etc.) but can't remember where. Do you have any good articles/papers on this?
      - tarsinge 5y ago
        > can have such lavish perks/holidays/etc Just look at the difference in taxes on salary between France and the US. Half of what is payed by employers to workers goes to social protection (this is in addition to the company taxes). If you add VAT and income taxes the amount of disposable money is a fraction of what you would get in the US, nothing magic.
        hef19898 5y ago
        And yet living standards are at least as high and quite often higher in most EU countries compared to the US.
    - tarsinge 5y ago
      Source regarding insulin?
    - munk-a 5y ago
      The US is still free riding on Canada when it comes to Insulin development IMO.
- TheRealPomax 5y ago
  Funny you should say that. Let's have a look at what the out-of-pocket costs would be if you live in, say, the Netherlands: https://www.farmacotherapeutischkompas.nl/bladeren/preparaatteksten/kostenoverzicht/modal/insuline__gewoon https://www.farmacotherapeutischkompas.nl/bladeren/preparaat... because those prices look a hell of a lot more normal than US dependents get squeezed (literally) to death for.
  - pimeys 5y ago
    Yep. And if some insulin gets too expensive, at least in Germany they kick it out from the system completely. It's either you can sell your product in the country with a price we think is reasonable, or we will not let you to be in the market. 20 euros per 10ml (about 2 weeks of use for me) is still kind of a good money for a product I cannot stop using...
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    Sure, there's a price difference across regions. That's nothing new. The important thing is that insulin prices haven't been going up. You can continue to get the same insulin as 50 years ago for pretty much the same price modulo inflation. And anyway, the Netherlands getting cheap stuff is a side-effect of innovation here. America builds for America, driven by American needs, and you guys benefit as a result. There's a reason recombinant DNA tech (which backs modern insulin) came from the Bay Area and not the Netherlands. NL has twice the pop of the Bay and a fraction of the inventions. A single university here has like 5x as many Nobel Prize winners as that entire country. I mean, I'm glad you're able to buy insulin cheap but we're richer and we're the ones driving progress, so we'll keep at it because we want a better life for ourselves (and if you benefit, it's fine). You're not capable of making that for us, yourselves, or anyone really.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Oh yeah. Where would the world be without the SV innovations in targeted ads, social media and buying cheap stuff over the internet.
gruez 5y ago
>The manufacturers' margins just keep climbing because they know they can raise prices without consequence. They have? According to testimony by Sanofi, even though list price have went up 126%, net price has actually gone down 25%. https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/26FEB2019BRANDICOURT-SANOFI.pdf https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/26FEB2019BRANDI...
- peytn 5y ago
  Ah yes, “net price.” Don’t remember my accounting class covering that. What about revenue?
  - gruez 5y ago
    >Ah yes, “net price.” Don’t remember my accounting class covering that Good thing it's covered in the report >What about revenue? Surely your accounting class tell you that rising revenue doesn't necessarily mean that "margins just keep climbing"
- sjansen 5y ago
  And most blockbusters movies never turn a profit. Color me skeptical. There’s probably similar accounting tricks at play.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >And most blockbusters movies never turn a profit net price =/= profit. The report also covers what exactly goes into the difference between gross and net price. If you can point out what the accounting tricks are, that'll be great.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  If you look at the chart in the link, about 45% of the difference between “list price” and “net price” is discounts or rebates to insurers. It’s particularly gross and brazen, even by pharmaceutical rent-seeking standards, to justify cocaine-like profit margins because large buyers can negotiate. Insulin prices are driven by anticompetitive behavior. If you look at metformin, a generic drug treating the same disease, profit margins are tight, driven by competitive economics. A 90-day supply is < $10 retail.
skeeter2020 5y ago
Insulin has actually gotten cheaper; it's the pricing due to customization, branding and applicators that is totally out of control. Coupled with the history of insulin's invention and "open source" nature this is unconscionable .

Insulin prices have increased SO MUCH over the past 50 years, it's disgusting. The manufacturers' margins just keep climbing because they know they can raise prices without consequence.

renewiltord 5y ago

Well, that's because the insulin has been getting better. You could always buy porcine insulin and shit. It's just not as good (side effects, harder to dose, etc.).

pimeys 5y ago
The best new analogs cost about 28 euros per 10ml bottle in Spain without insurance... Medicine, such as FIASP...
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  Europe is free riding on the US.
  - atlasunshrugged 5y ago
    I heard this argument somewhere (not just about medicine but also on defense, why they can have such lavish perks/holidays/etc.) but can't remember where. Do you have any good articles/papers on this?
    - tarsinge 5y ago
      > can have such lavish perks/holidays/etc Just look at the difference in taxes on salary between France and the US. Half of what is payed by employers to workers goes to social protection (this is in addition to the company taxes). If you add VAT and income taxes the amount of disposable money is a fraction of what you would get in the US, nothing magic.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        And yet living standards are at least as high and quite often higher in most EU countries compared to the US.
  - tarsinge 5y ago
    Source regarding insulin?
  - munk-a 5y ago
    The US is still free riding on Canada when it comes to Insulin development IMO.
TheRealPomax 5y ago
Funny you should say that. Let's have a look at what the out-of-pocket costs would be if you live in, say, the Netherlands: https://www.farmacotherapeutischkompas.nl/bladeren/preparaatteksten/kostenoverzicht/modal/insuline__gewoon https://www.farmacotherapeutischkompas.nl/bladeren/preparaat... because those prices look a hell of a lot more normal than US dependents get squeezed (literally) to death for.
- pimeys 5y ago
  Yep. And if some insulin gets too expensive, at least in Germany they kick it out from the system completely. It's either you can sell your product in the country with a price we think is reasonable, or we will not let you to be in the market. 20 euros per 10ml (about 2 weeks of use for me) is still kind of a good money for a product I cannot stop using...
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Sure, there's a price difference across regions. That's nothing new. The important thing is that insulin prices haven't been going up. You can continue to get the same insulin as 50 years ago for pretty much the same price modulo inflation. And anyway, the Netherlands getting cheap stuff is a side-effect of innovation here. America builds for America, driven by American needs, and you guys benefit as a result. There's a reason recombinant DNA tech (which backs modern insulin) came from the Bay Area and not the Netherlands. NL has twice the pop of the Bay and a fraction of the inventions. A single university here has like 5x as many Nobel Prize winners as that entire country. I mean, I'm glad you're able to buy insulin cheap but we're richer and we're the ones driving progress, so we'll keep at it because we want a better life for ourselves (and if you benefit, it's fine). You're not capable of making that for us, yourselves, or anyone really.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Oh yeah. Where would the world be without the SV innovations in targeted ads, social media and buying cheap stuff over the internet.

gruez 5y ago

>The manufacturers' margins just keep climbing because they know they can raise prices without consequence. They have? According to testimony by Sanofi, even though list price have went up 126%, net price has actually gone down 25%. https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/26FEB2019BRANDICOURT-SANOFI.pdf https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/26FEB2019BRANDI...

peytn 5y ago
Ah yes, “net price.” Don’t remember my accounting class covering that. What about revenue?
- gruez 5y ago
  >Ah yes, “net price.” Don’t remember my accounting class covering that Good thing it's covered in the report >What about revenue? Surely your accounting class tell you that rising revenue doesn't necessarily mean that "margins just keep climbing"
sjansen 5y ago
And most blockbusters movies never turn a profit. Color me skeptical. There’s probably similar accounting tricks at play.
- gruez 5y ago
  >And most blockbusters movies never turn a profit net price =/= profit. The report also covers what exactly goes into the difference between gross and net price. If you can point out what the accounting tricks are, that'll be great.
Spooky23 5y ago
If you look at the chart in the link, about 45% of the difference between “list price” and “net price” is discounts or rebates to insurers. It’s particularly gross and brazen, even by pharmaceutical rent-seeking standards, to justify cocaine-like profit margins because large buyers can negotiate. Insulin prices are driven by anticompetitive behavior. If you look at metformin, a generic drug treating the same disease, profit margins are tight, driven by competitive economics. A 90-day supply is < $10 retail.

skeeter2020 5y ago

Insulin has actually gotten cheaper; it's the pricing due to customization, branding and applicators that is totally out of control. Coupled with the history of insulin's invention and "open source" nature this is unconscionable .