6 ms·

Also the people claiming (and believing) that they have no intention of suing are not the people who make the decision to sue or not (unless it's an extremely s

Also the people claiming (and believing) that they have no intention of suing are not the people who make the decision to sue or not (unless it's an extremely small company, or you are an important enough hire to be discussing this with the CEO and General Counsel). Even if they have the best intentions, some random recruiter or manager really has no insight into this.

filmgirlcw 5y ago
Absolutely -- very early in my career, a startup I worked at had non-compete language in my original employment contract (naming very specific places I couldn't be poached to take a job at) and even though the company was very small and the person who made me the job offer was the COO (and they assured me they would never actually excise the non-compete), I still refused to sign until that language was taken out. I also got language put into my contract to specifically allow for some of my moonlighting activities that could possibly be seen as a conflict. Both wound up being useful when the company expanded and they attempted to enforce different rules on me. Because my contract said what it said, I was able to get the HR person to back-off and didn't have any fear when I did eventually leave for a competitor. And because of my moonlighting clause, I was able to have side-projects when other employees were often discouraged from doing the same thing (part of me felt bad for having different rules, but if I was capable of getting those clauses put in my contract when I was 24, others were too). It is true that employees, especially lower-level employees, don't always have the leverage to change the contracts they sign (especially at larger companies), but I would personally never sign a non-compete unless there were very specific scenarios involved (i.e. it was either incredibly, incredibly narrow or the company would pay me while I waited out the non-compete), no matter what HR or the recruiter says. You don't need to be adversarial when discussing language or making changes -- most places are reasonable. And if a place isn't reasonable but refuses to remove non-compete language from a contract, even though they swear they will never exercise it, well, that's a giant red flag.
- dataflow 5y ago
  > if I was capable of getting those clauses put in my contract when I was 24, others were too) > It is true that employees, especially lower-level employees, don't always have the leverage to change the contracts they sign (especially at larger companies) Confused, so do you think this is practical for people or no? There are only so many 3-person startups to go around that would change any terms for anybody...
  - filmgirlcw 5y ago
    It was 10 person, but my point is people can still negotiate, even when they are young. And there is still a big gulf between a 300 person company (the startup I was at at its peak) and a 150,000+ person FAANG (where you will have less leverage as a non exec hire).
  - rapind 5y ago
    > There are only so many 3-person startups to go around that would change any terms for anybody... This depends entirely on their terms, how many potential hires read and care about their terms, what sort of talent they are looking for, and how attractive the position is. Sure it's a hassle for the 3-person startup, but I imagine this is much harder with Big Co. where the hiring manager may ask legal to make changes for a great potential hire and legal tells them to take a hike.

filmgirlcw 5y ago

Absolutely -- very early in my career, a startup I worked at had non-compete language in my original employment contract (naming very specific places I couldn't be poached to take a job at) and even though the company was very small and the person who made me the job offer was the COO (and they assured me they would never actually excise the non-compete), I still refused to sign until that language was taken out. I also got language put into my contract to specifically allow for some of my moonlighting activities that could possibly be seen as a conflict. Both wound up being useful when the company expanded and they attempted to enforce different rules on me. Because my contract said what it said, I was able to get the HR person to back-off and didn't have any fear when I did eventually leave for a competitor. And because of my moonlighting clause, I was able to have side-projects when other employees were often discouraged from doing the same thing (part of me felt bad for having different rules, but if I was capable of getting those clauses put in my contract when I was 24, others were too). It is true that employees, especially lower-level employees, don't always have the leverage to change the contracts they sign (especially at larger companies), but I would personally never sign a non-compete unless there were very specific scenarios involved (i.e. it was either incredibly, incredibly narrow or the company would pay me while I waited out the non-compete), no matter what HR or the recruiter says. You don't need to be adversarial when discussing language or making changes -- most places are reasonable. And if a place isn't reasonable but refuses to remove non-compete language from a contract, even though they swear they will never exercise it, well, that's a giant red flag.

dataflow 5y ago
> if I was capable of getting those clauses put in my contract when I was 24, others were too) > It is true that employees, especially lower-level employees, don't always have the leverage to change the contracts they sign (especially at larger companies) Confused, so do you think this is practical for people or no? There are only so many 3-person startups to go around that would change any terms for anybody...
- filmgirlcw 5y ago
  It was 10 person, but my point is people can still negotiate, even when they are young. And there is still a big gulf between a 300 person company (the startup I was at at its peak) and a 150,000+ person FAANG (where you will have less leverage as a non exec hire).
- rapind 5y ago
  > There are only so many 3-person startups to go around that would change any terms for anybody... This depends entirely on their terms, how many potential hires read and care about their terms, what sort of talent they are looking for, and how attractive the position is. Sure it's a hassle for the 3-person startup, but I imagine this is much harder with Big Co. where the hiring manager may ask legal to make changes for a great potential hire and legal tells them to take a hike.