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I think "distractions" is an unfair way of putting it. Most people (at least in America) are focused on working enough to survive. Even though a significant por

I think "distractions" is an unfair way of putting it. Most people (at least in America) are focused on working enough to survive. Even though a significant portion of the population is aware of climate collapse, what can they do about it? Without a direct confrontation to global capitalism, emissions will continue. Even if emissions were halted completely today, we're still going to be dealing with a collapsing biosphere with unpredictable consequences for generations. I just don't see how awareness of the issue will do anything to improve our situation.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
There's also the risk, according to some scientists, that if we cut our emissions overnight (I don't know how, like we all got together collectively and did at once or something), the climate could be significantly adversely affected by the shock drop. Cutting emissions entirely is also a no-win. So where's the balance? There's also the issue that some countries (the US) are a lot more concerned about it than other countries (not naming names). Those other countries have every incentive to watch us flail around making the lives of our citizens harder (through taxation, meat reduction, other proposals) trying to cut emissions while they sit back and egg us on, and maybe pay lip service once in a while with the occasional inconsequential project.
- hanniabu 5y ago
  What type of effect would there be on the climate from a sudden decrease in CO2?
  - pjc50 5y ago
    There can't be. The amount of lag in the system is huge. Ceasing industrial CO2 emissions instantly would simply start a slow downtrend in the amount of atmospheric CO2. It would take decades to return to, say the 1900 level. I don't know where that person got their idea from but it's clearly a very bad source.
  - js8 5y ago
    I think he is (somewhat confusingly) talking about global dimming, i.e. particulate pollution, masking warming effect of CO2. But we can't really do much about that if we want to stop global warming at all. And it's not even completely clear whether that theory (of dimming) is valid or not, clouds can have a varying effect on temperature.
    - gjsman-1000 5y ago
      Thank you, that's probably it. It's all very complicated. The scary thing with theories is that reality doesn't change whether your theory is considered proven or not. We might have no evidence that "global dimming" would be a thing, but then it absolutely could happen. Or, admittedly, vice versa, where we thought it could happen but it doesn't. We need more research as usual...
      - pjc50 5y ago
        > The scary thing with theories is that reality doesn't change whether your theory is considered proven or not. We might have no evidence that "global dimming" would be a thing, but then it absolutely cold happen. Or, admittedly, vice versa, where we thought it could happen but it doesn't. This is just denialism of prediction as a concept. A universal excuse to not do anything. After all, why work to extinguish the fire when it could go out all by itself?
        gjsman-1000 5y ago
        That wasn't really my point. I'm more just saying that there is the risk that, let's say "climate dimming" is a thing, and we somehow pressed forward and cut all the emissions, and then it happens when we didn't expect it. What does that mean for us? We're playing with the world here. If scientists mess up and their reaction to climate change causes other problems, nobody will listen to a scientist ever again on this issue, and that comes with its own risks.
        pjc50 5y ago
        Conversely, what if we press forward and there are benefits we don't expect?
- soperj 5y ago
  Honestly out of Western countries, the US seems the least concerned about it.
- lm28469 5y ago
  > There's also the issue that some countries (the US) are a lot more concerned about it than other countries (not naming names). Concerned ? Maybe, doing something about it, not so sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita#/media/File:CO2_emissions_per_capita,_2017_(Our_World_in_Data).svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...
- loopz 5y ago
  If humanity cut all of CO2 emissions today, it's going to take hundreds of years for accumulated CO2 to drop significantly! It's mostly excess CO2 and doesn't drop beyond seasonal cycles.
- runamok 5y ago
  Citation needed... IIRC a significant drop did occur over the past year or so due to covid.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

There's also the risk, according to some scientists, that if we cut our emissions overnight (I don't know how, like we all got together collectively and did at once or something), the climate could be significantly adversely affected by the shock drop. Cutting emissions entirely is also a no-win. So where's the balance? There's also the issue that some countries (the US) are a lot more concerned about it than other countries (not naming names). Those other countries have every incentive to watch us flail around making the lives of our citizens harder (through taxation, meat reduction, other proposals) trying to cut emissions while they sit back and egg us on, and maybe pay lip service once in a while with the occasional inconsequential project.

hanniabu 5y ago
What type of effect would there be on the climate from a sudden decrease in CO2?
- pjc50 5y ago
  There can't be. The amount of lag in the system is huge. Ceasing industrial CO2 emissions instantly would simply start a slow downtrend in the amount of atmospheric CO2. It would take decades to return to, say the 1900 level. I don't know where that person got their idea from but it's clearly a very bad source.
- js8 5y ago
  I think he is (somewhat confusingly) talking about global dimming, i.e. particulate pollution, masking warming effect of CO2. But we can't really do much about that if we want to stop global warming at all. And it's not even completely clear whether that theory (of dimming) is valid or not, clouds can have a varying effect on temperature.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    Thank you, that's probably it. It's all very complicated. The scary thing with theories is that reality doesn't change whether your theory is considered proven or not. We might have no evidence that "global dimming" would be a thing, but then it absolutely could happen. Or, admittedly, vice versa, where we thought it could happen but it doesn't. We need more research as usual...
    - pjc50 5y ago
      > The scary thing with theories is that reality doesn't change whether your theory is considered proven or not. We might have no evidence that "global dimming" would be a thing, but then it absolutely cold happen. Or, admittedly, vice versa, where we thought it could happen but it doesn't. This is just denialism of prediction as a concept. A universal excuse to not do anything. After all, why work to extinguish the fire when it could go out all by itself?
      - gjsman-1000 5y ago
        That wasn't really my point. I'm more just saying that there is the risk that, let's say "climate dimming" is a thing, and we somehow pressed forward and cut all the emissions, and then it happens when we didn't expect it. What does that mean for us? We're playing with the world here. If scientists mess up and their reaction to climate change causes other problems, nobody will listen to a scientist ever again on this issue, and that comes with its own risks.
        pjc50 5y ago
        Conversely, what if we press forward and there are benefits we don't expect?
soperj 5y ago
Honestly out of Western countries, the US seems the least concerned about it.
lm28469 5y ago
> There's also the issue that some countries (the US) are a lot more concerned about it than other countries (not naming names). Concerned ? Maybe, doing something about it, not so sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita#/media/File:CO2_emissions_per_capita,_2017_(Our_World_in_Data).svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...
loopz 5y ago
If humanity cut all of CO2 emissions today, it's going to take hundreds of years for accumulated CO2 to drop significantly! It's mostly excess CO2 and doesn't drop beyond seasonal cycles.
runamok 5y ago
Citation needed... IIRC a significant drop did occur over the past year or so due to covid.