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Simple: The attitude held by many in the law enforcement and justice system is that if you get swept up by police, you're probably guilty of something, so getti

Simple: The attitude held by many in the law enforcement and justice system is that if you get swept up by police, you're probably guilty of something, so getting you off the street - even by coercing a false statement - makes the world a better place. The end justifying the means. My neighborhood in Chicago has a cop enclave inside it and they are absolutely lighting up our neighborhood political discussion group irate about this law, talking about how many murders and rapists are going to go free.

wyldfire 5y ago
> how many murders and rapists are going to go free. How many murderers and rapists are minors? Probably not many.
- dionidium 5y ago
  Unfortunately, quite a lot. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/251884/murder-offenders-in-the-us-by-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/251884/murder-offenders-...
  - AJ007 5y ago
    Especially in Chicago where an astounding number of murders go unsolved, most of which are gang related. While higher for whites, for African American victims, The close rate was near 20%, something most Americans may associate with Guatemala or Mexico - https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/10/09/768552458/chicago-s-dismal-murder-solve-rate-even-worse-when-victims-are-black https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/10/09/768552458/chicago-s... Based on arrest histories of gang members and failures to prosecute even closed cases, one should assume that there are a large number of serial killers operating in Chicago, many of who started as minors. While most middle and upper class Americans dismiss this as just gang members killing each other, so it’s no big deal, this clearly would not be tolerated in a largely white suburban setting, gang associated or otherwise.
    - rovolo 5y ago
      JFYI, you may be inferring "gang-caused" from "gang-related". > An additional concern is the varying methods by which homicides are classified as “gang-related.” The most commonly used is the “member-based” approach, in which a homicide is classified as gang-related if the victim was and/or the perpetrator is a gang member. [] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-5-how-are-gang-crimes-especially-gang-related https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-5-how-are-g... Also, tons of people (850k - 1.4m) are classified as gang members. The criteria for being a gang member is very broad and includes friend groups who've been arrested: - The group has three or more members, generally aged 12–24. - Members share an identity, typically linked to a name, and often other symbols. - Members view themselves as a gang, and they are recognized by others as a gang. - The group has some permanence and a degree of organization. - The group is involved in an elevated level of criminal activity. [] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-1-what-is-a-gang https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-1-what-is-a... [] 850k https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-4-how-extensive-is-the-current-gang-problem https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-4-how-exten... [] 1.4 million (page 9) https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/stats-services-publications-2011-national-gang-threat-assessment-2011%20national%20gang%20threat%20assessment%20%20emerging%20trends.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/stats-services-publicati... If you calculate out the statistics, there're tons of people classified as gang members { latino: ~50%, black: ~30%, white non-latino: ~15% } { latino: 450k-700k, black: 250-400k, white non-latino: 125-200k } (I don't know how they classify black latino vs white latino) [] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-11-what-is-the-racialethnic-composition-of https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-11-what-is-... You can compare these numbers to the total population of males (90% of gang members are male) in the 14-24 age range (I excluded the 10-14 population even though it's included in the 12-24 age range). Classifying 10% of the population as being in a gang basically makes the label useless since you can then call almost anything "gang-related". { latino: 5m, black: 3m, white non-latino: 15m } { latino: ~10%, black: ~10%, white non-latino: 1% } [] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2011.B01001I https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2011.B01001I [] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001B https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001B [] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001A https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001A
  - wyldfire 5y ago
    Does this data include false convictions predicated on the same interrogations that are now illegal?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  A lot of gang violence in Chicago is perpetrated by minors as initiation rituals because they get light sentences.
KittenInABox 5y ago
Cops already let a ton of rapists go free as it is, including themselves. I don't expect a change.
Simulacra 5y ago
Nobody likes to lose power, especially the police.
watwut 5y ago
How likely are they to solve rapes and murders? Afaik, rapes are solved very rarely. Murders are more likely to be solved, but the numbers are still not all that great.

wyldfire 5y ago

> how many murders and rapists are going to go free. How many murderers and rapists are minors? Probably not many.

dionidium 5y ago
Unfortunately, quite a lot. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/251884/murder-offenders-in-the-us-by-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/251884/murder-offenders-...
- AJ007 5y ago
  Especially in Chicago where an astounding number of murders go unsolved, most of which are gang related. While higher for whites, for African American victims, The close rate was near 20%, something most Americans may associate with Guatemala or Mexico - https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/10/09/768552458/chicago-s-dismal-murder-solve-rate-even-worse-when-victims-are-black https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/10/09/768552458/chicago-s... Based on arrest histories of gang members and failures to prosecute even closed cases, one should assume that there are a large number of serial killers operating in Chicago, many of who started as minors. While most middle and upper class Americans dismiss this as just gang members killing each other, so it’s no big deal, this clearly would not be tolerated in a largely white suburban setting, gang associated or otherwise.
  - rovolo 5y ago
    JFYI, you may be inferring "gang-caused" from "gang-related". > An additional concern is the varying methods by which homicides are classified as “gang-related.” The most commonly used is the “member-based” approach, in which a homicide is classified as gang-related if the victim was and/or the perpetrator is a gang member. [] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-5-how-are-gang-crimes-especially-gang-related https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-5-how-are-g... Also, tons of people (850k - 1.4m) are classified as gang members. The criteria for being a gang member is very broad and includes friend groups who've been arrested: - The group has three or more members, generally aged 12–24. - Members share an identity, typically linked to a name, and often other symbols. - Members view themselves as a gang, and they are recognized by others as a gang. - The group has some permanence and a degree of organization. - The group is involved in an elevated level of criminal activity. [] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-1-what-is-a-gang https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-1-what-is-a... [] 850k https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-4-how-extensive-is-the-current-gang-problem https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-4-how-exten... [] 1.4 million (page 9) https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/stats-services-publications-2011-national-gang-threat-assessment-2011%20national%20gang%20threat%20assessment%20%20emerging%20trends.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/stats-services-publicati... If you calculate out the statistics, there're tons of people classified as gang members { latino: ~50%, black: ~30%, white non-latino: ~15% } { latino: 450k-700k, black: 250-400k, white non-latino: 125-200k } (I don't know how they classify black latino vs white latino) [] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-11-what-is-the-racialethnic-composition-of https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-11-what-is-... You can compare these numbers to the total population of males (90% of gang members are male) in the 14-24 age range (I excluded the 10-14 population even though it's included in the 12-24 age range). Classifying 10% of the population as being in a gang basically makes the label useless since you can then call almost anything "gang-related". { latino: 5m, black: 3m, white non-latino: 15m } { latino: ~10%, black: ~10%, white non-latino: 1% } [] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2011.B01001I https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2011.B01001I [] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001B https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001B [] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001A https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001A
- wyldfire 5y ago
  Does this data include false convictions predicated on the same interrogations that are now illegal?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
colinmhayes 5y ago
A lot of gang violence in Chicago is perpetrated by minors as initiation rituals because they get light sentences.

KittenInABox 5y ago

Cops already let a ton of rapists go free as it is, including themselves. I don't expect a change.

Simulacra 5y ago

Nobody likes to lose power, especially the police.

watwut 5y ago

How likely are they to solve rapes and murders? Afaik, rapes are solved very rarely. Murders are more likely to be solved, but the numbers are still not all that great.