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This is my quibble with reporting on weather events lately. Over in Germany, where they had massive flooding due to a ton of rain in a short period, everything

This is my quibble with reporting on weather events lately. Over in Germany, where they had massive flooding due to a ton of rain in a short period, everything about it is pinned on climate change, to the exclusion of discussing any other problems that can lead to disaster. How much could also be other human factors, like building up levees and flood control systems that aren't up to snuff and/or shift worse flooding problems downstream (this has been the case in many parts of the US for decades now; can we presume Europe is better in flood control management than the Army Corps and thousands of small river towns?).

warglebargle 5y ago
doesn’t really matter what the problem is attributed to when not enough is being done about either way (at least in the case of the US, can’t speak for Germany) I'd be all for attributing it to not sweeping forests well enough if that actually got the funding to start seriously combating the issue, it’s a positive feedback loop that needs to be mitigated
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  No, how about we be honest with ourselves first as to what the real root cause is? Answering "Yes, but...climate change!" to "Is the cause actually due to poor forestry management over the past 50 years?" doesn't actually solve anything.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    If it is bad forestry management, we can fix that and it's much easier to hold the people responsible for that job because it's a defined role that they failed at. Compared to how much climate change will supposedly cost us to fix and that it's much more arguable who is responsible for what...
    - warglebargle 5y ago
      part of the plan for mitigating climate change is better forest management…
      - gjsman-1000 5y ago
        Not hopeful in that, because it wasn't like California did good forest management with what we knew, but there were better strategies available. They did bad forest management, even compared to what we already know, and somehow they're going to do what they should have done already...
      - warglebargle 5y ago
        this is the problem… “california didn’t do this” “it’s not X it’s Y” - meanwhile forests burn; we’re going to die arguing. I’m going to go call my congressperson and end this frivolous argument! no offense!
  - warglebargle 5y ago
    Nothing has been done about “poor management” either so why exactly does it matter? Blame it on me for all I care, just convince half of congress do actually do something
Hokusai 5y ago
> could also be other human factors The cause for the failures have been unprecedented rainfall. There are a million possible factors that can influence the situation, climate change is the leading one. Let's fix it instead of discussing if climate change represents a 90% of the problem or just a 78%. Let's also spend trillions adding more safety for a worsening and more hostile climate. We could have saved that by taking action earlier, now we need to pay to keep ourselves safe. Let's act before it costs more money and more lives.
freeflight 5y ago
> Over in Germany, where they had massive flooding due to a ton of rain in a short period, everything about it is pinned on climate change, to the exclusion of discussing any other problems that can lead to disaster. Germany has had "once in century" floods every decade for a while now. It's a densely populated country, meaning people can't just move somewhere else and there are not large swaths of unpopulated/unused lands that could be repurposed for massive flood control systems. It's also not like we are talking about towns that have been built recently in risk-areas, we are talking about towns that have been in those places for centuries, sometimes over a millennia, which is a testament to how out of the ordinary these floods are.

warglebargle 5y ago

doesn’t really matter what the problem is attributed to when not enough is being done about either way (at least in the case of the US, can’t speak for Germany) I'd be all for attributing it to not sweeping forests well enough if that actually got the funding to start seriously combating the issue, it’s a positive feedback loop that needs to be mitigated

JohnWhigham 5y ago
No, how about we be honest with ourselves first as to what the real root cause is? Answering "Yes, but...climate change!" to "Is the cause actually due to poor forestry management over the past 50 years?" doesn't actually solve anything.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  If it is bad forestry management, we can fix that and it's much easier to hold the people responsible for that job because it's a defined role that they failed at. Compared to how much climate change will supposedly cost us to fix and that it's much more arguable who is responsible for what...
  - warglebargle 5y ago
    part of the plan for mitigating climate change is better forest management…
    - gjsman-1000 5y ago
      Not hopeful in that, because it wasn't like California did good forest management with what we knew, but there were better strategies available. They did bad forest management, even compared to what we already know, and somehow they're going to do what they should have done already...
    - warglebargle 5y ago
      this is the problem… “california didn’t do this” “it’s not X it’s Y” - meanwhile forests burn; we’re going to die arguing. I’m going to go call my congressperson and end this frivolous argument! no offense!
- warglebargle 5y ago
  Nothing has been done about “poor management” either so why exactly does it matter? Blame it on me for all I care, just convince half of congress do actually do something

Hokusai 5y ago

> could also be other human factors The cause for the failures have been unprecedented rainfall. There are a million possible factors that can influence the situation, climate change is the leading one. Let's fix it instead of discussing if climate change represents a 90% of the problem or just a 78%. Let's also spend trillions adding more safety for a worsening and more hostile climate. We could have saved that by taking action earlier, now we need to pay to keep ourselves safe. Let's act before it costs more money and more lives.

freeflight 5y ago

> Over in Germany, where they had massive flooding due to a ton of rain in a short period, everything about it is pinned on climate change, to the exclusion of discussing any other problems that can lead to disaster. Germany has had "once in century" floods every decade for a while now. It's a densely populated country, meaning people can't just move somewhere else and there are not large swaths of unpopulated/unused lands that could be repurposed for massive flood control systems. It's also not like we are talking about towns that have been built recently in risk-areas, we are talking about towns that have been in those places for centuries, sometimes over a millennia, which is a testament to how out of the ordinary these floods are.