4 ms·

>It's slightly less disturbing to think that the cops legitimately think they're doing a good job over the alternative of intentionally ignoring their responsib

>It's slightly less disturbing to think that the cops legitimately think they're doing a good job over the alternative of intentionally ignoring their responsibility. Still troubling to think they could be that deluded. Stalin truly believed what he was doing was for the greater good of the USSR. It's extremely easy to justify bad deeds and fool yourself that the ends justify the means.

serenloss 5y ago
I think one could make a strong argument that Stalin always knowingly acted in the best interest of Stalin.
mumblemumble 5y ago
This seems like a valid, if hyperbolic, point to me. I think that one could make a plausible argument that one of the most basic implications of the principle of rule of law is that, at least where the police are concerned, the ends don't justify the means. Allowing them to behave otherwise isn't a slippery slope that leads to rampant abuse of power; it's a dead drop.
eldavido 5y ago
Great illustration of why respect for individual rights is so important. There will always be some megalomaniac, whether dictator, president, cop, or some authority figure, who "knows best". Individual rights are the brakes. They're the lines we've agreed not to cross as a society, even when we're really sure we "know best". Example: property rights. No matter how sure you are that there's stolen property in the building, even law enforcement doesn't get to enter without a warrant. Individual rights limit what others can do.
- joyeuse6701 5y ago
  Agreed, which, as an aside, is why the civil forfeiture issue is such a scandal
- manquer 5y ago
  It may not be that simple. Imagine if each of your cells had individual rights or every bee in a hive has freedom to do its own thing. Sometimes (most?) having centralized systems of power can be misused but that doesn't mean that centralized systems shouldn't be tried, there are evolutionary advantages to them.
  - infogulch 5y ago
    I don't know what your point is, GP's comment already mentions a case where authority can intrude on individual rights: warrants, and there are many additional exceptions. The point of this system is not to make individuals untouchable, its to lift the authority to intrude on personal liberties out of the hands of individual beat cops and into a well-defined system and public observable record through the courts.
  - airstrike 5y ago
    The problem with analogies is they're not really accurate. Cells or bees have nothing to do with the wrongfully imprisoned minors in question.
    - autoexec 5y ago
      Just like a broken clock analogies can be accurate some of the time.
  - chaps 5y ago
    This is a breath takingly disgusting over simplification and you know it. How am I not surprised that you're the founder and CTO of a proctoring company that does facial recognition + AI to detect lying with "100% unbiased results". Fucking gross, man.
    - anon9001 5y ago
      Wow, you are not kidding. > Based on established models such as Big 5 and intrinsic values, TBI adds AI-powered Natural Language Processing to process data and help you make unbiased hiring decisions 100% of the time. > TBI stack ranks candidates according to their performance in the assessment with regards to the competencies predetermined by the enterprise, ranging from 'essential' to 'good' and then 'critical'. > Leverage psycholinguistics to analyze a candidate’s response and predict behavior in half the time. So this company has layered AI on top of pseudoscience and is selling it as an automated hiring tool. I guess the hiring decisions are 100% unbiased if the results are indistinguishable from noise? Or maybe your hiring decisions are "unbiased" if you launder them through this software to produce a team that looks like your existing team? Either way, this Talview company is doing some really evil stuff.
whatshisface 5y ago
>Stalin truly believed what he was doing was for the greater good of the USSR. I think a better way to phrase this would be that Stalin often said that what he was doing was for the greater good of the USSR.
- cutemonster 5y ago
  Good point. More likely, he did what was good for himself personally, to stay in power etc. Whilst saying to others that he did what was good for the USSR. And then, seems many people still today believe him
  - Clubber 5y ago
    >More likely, he did what was good for himself personally, to stay in power etc. Whilst saying to others that he did what was good for the USSR. And then, seems many people still today believe him Stalin remained true to the Marxist ideal of a classless and stateless world society until his death in 1953. This is the conclusion of researchers at Amsterdam University (UvA) who studied Stalin's annotations in books by Marx, Engels and Lenin in his private library. The notes originate from the period between 1917 and 1953 and show that the dictator continued to adhere to such Marxist goals as the abolition of the state and the creation of classless society. Moreover, Stalin's correspondence and discussions with such Communist leaders as Mao Zedong and Palmiro Togliatti show a continuing faith in the spread of communism and "world revolution". https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-02/NOfS-SwfM-2202100.php https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-02/NOfS-SwfM-22... A false preacher using his power for selfish purposes will carry a bible for show, maybe have a few stowed away. A false preacher certainly wouldn't have accumulated years of theology literature in his personal/private library over his lifetime. Seems like a true believer to me, but you may see it differently. Him being a true believer and having done what he did makes his particular flavor of human nature even more frightening.
    - cutemonster 5y ago
      Thanks for the quote and link, I didn't know about his annotations. Makes sense then that he was more a true believer Still I'd think that primarily important thing for him was himself and personal power, and that if he had had to make a choice between ideologies and himself, he'd done what was better for him personally. I wonder if he looked at communism etc more like a powerful tool (or so he thought) for him to use, and then not surprising if he spent time studying it From the article: > show a continuing faith in the spread of communism and "world revolution". That'd almost made him the dictator over the world? Who knows if that might have been a main goal, and communism a tool?
lostapathy 5y ago
> Stalin truly believed what he was doing was for the greater good of the USSR. It's extremely easy to justify bad deeds and fool yourself that the ends justify the means. Hitler as well. I went to Catholic school. Had quite the debate with a nun over why I thought Hitler and Stalin both went to heaven, since both thought they were doing the right thing and were just horribly misguided.

serenloss 5y ago

I think one could make a strong argument that Stalin always knowingly acted in the best interest of Stalin.

mumblemumble 5y ago

This seems like a valid, if hyperbolic, point to me. I think that one could make a plausible argument that one of the most basic implications of the principle of rule of law is that, at least where the police are concerned, the ends don't justify the means. Allowing them to behave otherwise isn't a slippery slope that leads to rampant abuse of power; it's a dead drop.

eldavido 5y ago

Great illustration of why respect for individual rights is so important. There will always be some megalomaniac, whether dictator, president, cop, or some authority figure, who "knows best". Individual rights are the brakes. They're the lines we've agreed not to cross as a society, even when we're really sure we "know best". Example: property rights. No matter how sure you are that there's stolen property in the building, even law enforcement doesn't get to enter without a warrant. Individual rights limit what others can do.

joyeuse6701 5y ago
Agreed, which, as an aside, is why the civil forfeiture issue is such a scandal
manquer 5y ago
It may not be that simple. Imagine if each of your cells had individual rights or every bee in a hive has freedom to do its own thing. Sometimes (most?) having centralized systems of power can be misused but that doesn't mean that centralized systems shouldn't be tried, there are evolutionary advantages to them.
- infogulch 5y ago
  I don't know what your point is, GP's comment already mentions a case where authority can intrude on individual rights: warrants, and there are many additional exceptions. The point of this system is not to make individuals untouchable, its to lift the authority to intrude on personal liberties out of the hands of individual beat cops and into a well-defined system and public observable record through the courts.
- airstrike 5y ago
  The problem with analogies is they're not really accurate. Cells or bees have nothing to do with the wrongfully imprisoned minors in question.
  - autoexec 5y ago
    Just like a broken clock analogies can be accurate some of the time.
- chaps 5y ago
  This is a breath takingly disgusting over simplification and you know it. How am I not surprised that you're the founder and CTO of a proctoring company that does facial recognition + AI to detect lying with "100% unbiased results". Fucking gross, man.
  - anon9001 5y ago
    Wow, you are not kidding. > Based on established models such as Big 5 and intrinsic values, TBI adds AI-powered Natural Language Processing to process data and help you make unbiased hiring decisions 100% of the time. > TBI stack ranks candidates according to their performance in the assessment with regards to the competencies predetermined by the enterprise, ranging from 'essential' to 'good' and then 'critical'. > Leverage psycholinguistics to analyze a candidate’s response and predict behavior in half the time. So this company has layered AI on top of pseudoscience and is selling it as an automated hiring tool. I guess the hiring decisions are 100% unbiased if the results are indistinguishable from noise? Or maybe your hiring decisions are "unbiased" if you launder them through this software to produce a team that looks like your existing team? Either way, this Talview company is doing some really evil stuff.

whatshisface 5y ago

>Stalin truly believed what he was doing was for the greater good of the USSR. I think a better way to phrase this would be that Stalin often said that what he was doing was for the greater good of the USSR.

cutemonster 5y ago
Good point. More likely, he did what was good for himself personally, to stay in power etc. Whilst saying to others that he did what was good for the USSR. And then, seems many people still today believe him
- Clubber 5y ago
  >More likely, he did what was good for himself personally, to stay in power etc. Whilst saying to others that he did what was good for the USSR. And then, seems many people still today believe him Stalin remained true to the Marxist ideal of a classless and stateless world society until his death in 1953. This is the conclusion of researchers at Amsterdam University (UvA) who studied Stalin's annotations in books by Marx, Engels and Lenin in his private library. The notes originate from the period between 1917 and 1953 and show that the dictator continued to adhere to such Marxist goals as the abolition of the state and the creation of classless society. Moreover, Stalin's correspondence and discussions with such Communist leaders as Mao Zedong and Palmiro Togliatti show a continuing faith in the spread of communism and "world revolution". https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-02/NOfS-SwfM-2202100.php https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-02/NOfS-SwfM-22... A false preacher using his power for selfish purposes will carry a bible for show, maybe have a few stowed away. A false preacher certainly wouldn't have accumulated years of theology literature in his personal/private library over his lifetime. Seems like a true believer to me, but you may see it differently. Him being a true believer and having done what he did makes his particular flavor of human nature even more frightening.
  - cutemonster 5y ago
    Thanks for the quote and link, I didn't know about his annotations. Makes sense then that he was more a true believer Still I'd think that primarily important thing for him was himself and personal power, and that if he had had to make a choice between ideologies and himself, he'd done what was better for him personally. I wonder if he looked at communism etc more like a powerful tool (or so he thought) for him to use, and then not surprising if he spent time studying it From the article: > show a continuing faith in the spread of communism and "world revolution". That'd almost made him the dictator over the world? Who knows if that might have been a main goal, and communism a tool?

lostapathy 5y ago

> Stalin truly believed what he was doing was for the greater good of the USSR. It's extremely easy to justify bad deeds and fool yourself that the ends justify the means. Hitler as well. I went to Catholic school. Had quite the debate with a nun over why I thought Hitler and Stalin both went to heaven, since both thought they were doing the right thing and were just horribly misguided.