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Huh. I could've sworn the name and concept of the Dark Forest hypothesis predated Liu Cixin's book. Obviously I have it completely arse-about-face - I thought h

Huh. I could've sworn the name and concept of the Dark Forest hypothesis predated Liu Cixin's book. Obviously I have it completely arse-about-face - I thought he developed the series based upon the concept, not the other way around.

burntsushi 5y ago
This blurb has some citation links that suggest it predated Liu Cixin's book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#Communication_is_dangerous https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#Communication_is... My understanding was that Cixin's book gave it the name "Dark Forest," along with the eerie analogy.
- detritus 5y ago
  Aye, the basic concept was covered in this a couple of decades ago - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Star https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Star (which has just about as dark a conclusion as Cixin's trilogy does), but it was the actual Dark Forest name specifcially I thought existed prior. Clearly I'd been unwittingly absorbing output from people who'd already read his books ahead of me! - ed oh! I see The Killing Star's mentioned in the original linked article. It's worth a read, if you haven't already.
- andyjohnson0 5y ago
  Greg Bear's novels Forge of God (1987) and Anvil of Stars (1993) explore the same idea. They feel a little dated now but the first one in particular is still well worth a read imo.
  - detritus 5y ago
    Huh, I can't remember that [apparently fundamental] aspect of those two books. I'm going to see if I still have a copy of Forge of God on the bookshelf when I get home later, thanks. Last time I re-read one of his books (Eon, probably), I was quite bemused by the comically-simplistic 80s-esque Cold War perspective though!
    - andyjohnson0 5y ago
      [spoilers] In the first book the earth is attacked by Von Neumann probes launched preemptively by a civilization that wants to destroy potential agressors before they develop the technology to become a risk. The "benefactor" civilization group organises rescue and counter-assaults as a means of pan-civilisation trust building. The second book looks at the ethics of destroying a civ based on decisions it may have taken in its distant past. Anvil has something of a young adult style, but the game theory and strategy elements are quite satisfying I think.

burntsushi 5y ago

This blurb has some citation links that suggest it predated Liu Cixin's book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#Communication_is_dangerous https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#Communication_is... My understanding was that Cixin's book gave it the name "Dark Forest," along with the eerie analogy.

detritus 5y ago
Aye, the basic concept was covered in this a couple of decades ago - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Star https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Star (which has just about as dark a conclusion as Cixin's trilogy does), but it was the actual Dark Forest name specifcially I thought existed prior. Clearly I'd been unwittingly absorbing output from people who'd already read his books ahead of me! - ed oh! I see The Killing Star's mentioned in the original linked article. It's worth a read, if you haven't already.
andyjohnson0 5y ago
Greg Bear's novels Forge of God (1987) and Anvil of Stars (1993) explore the same idea. They feel a little dated now but the first one in particular is still well worth a read imo.
- detritus 5y ago
  Huh, I can't remember that [apparently fundamental] aspect of those two books. I'm going to see if I still have a copy of Forge of God on the bookshelf when I get home later, thanks. Last time I re-read one of his books (Eon, probably), I was quite bemused by the comically-simplistic 80s-esque Cold War perspective though!
  - andyjohnson0 5y ago
    [spoilers] In the first book the earth is attacked by Von Neumann probes launched preemptively by a civilization that wants to destroy potential agressors before they develop the technology to become a risk. The "benefactor" civilization group organises rescue and counter-assaults as a means of pan-civilisation trust building. The second book looks at the ethics of destroying a civ based on decisions it may have taken in its distant past. Anvil has something of a young adult style, but the game theory and strategy elements are quite satisfying I think.