5 ms·

Yes thats the right way, making Healthcare free for all is the only way, US has to learn from Canadians, Brits or dozen other EU countries.

consp 5y ago
"free" is relative. For instance we have a tax on chronically ill people here called "eigenrisico" (literally your own risk) which is not a tax but is meant for people to not seek help unless it is absolutely necessary and then pay for the cost. Some things are excluded but as soon as you need more than basic help or any medicine it comes into play. So it's a tax on being ill in all but name since it resets every year. So "free" comes in many forms, not all single player.
- caddybox 5y ago
  I'd be wary of calling it a tax. As you pointed out it's an amount large enough to warr off spurious medical needs and small enough that if you're really injured or suffering, it can be extremely helpful and is a miniscule part of your medical fees. What's broken is the huisarts system where any efforts to get specialized care when you're in pain must pass through your GP. This often leads to a longer waiting period that can be excruciatingly painful for some.
  - relaxing 5y ago
    In the US it’s called “needing a referral.”
    - kube-system 5y ago
      The literally translated equivalent in the US is a “deductible”.
      - sebmellen 5y ago
        “Eigenrisico” yes, but the Huisarts system is what GP was referring to as being analogous to “needing a referral”.
- sschueller 5y ago
  They have that in the US as well. It's called a copay I believe and it depends on insurance but is also do prevent people from going to seek help if it's minor.
- neolog 5y ago
  It's called a deductible in usa. https://h4i.nl/2018/11/30/health-insurance-understanding-eigen-risico/ https://h4i.nl/2018/11/30/health-insurance-understanding-eig...
- nomercy400 5y ago
  Did your intentionally leave out the annual 'basic healthcare' package of around 1500 euro you are required to have? It's not free.
  - contravariant 5y ago
    Though with all other subsidies etc. it's effectively not that different from an additional income tax. To the point where I wonder why they don't just make it part of the income tax.
    - freemint 5y ago
      Certain communities such as the Amish have in the past and will in future go to DC and protest. They see it as an attack on their way of life which it is. It is just that there way of life is build on perpetuating the way of life of the Amish.
      - contravariant 5y ago
        Well yes I was talking about the Netherlands where you have a mandatory insurance, guaranteed to be the same amongst all insurers and for which the cost is subsidized for people with low or no income. At that point it's basically an income tax.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  Does eigenrisico apply to each event separately or is there an annual limit? We have a similar idea here in Norway. I pay about 20 euro to visit my GP and I pay for drugs. An MRI costs me about 25 euro. But there is a limit of about 200 euro per year. Anything I pay over that will be refunded in the tax settlement for the year and if I have a chronic need for drugs I will be given a frikort to exempt me from paying for them at the pharmacy.
  - gattilorenz 5y ago
    In NL eigenrisico works like you describe (well, actually, it doesn't: after the eigenrisico you don't pay for stuff anymore, the insurance company covers the cost directly and you are not even billed), but is 350 euro, annually
DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
This isn't a matter of free healthcare; it's a matter of getting rid of bullshit patents and licensing problems that allow companies to pull off their absurd prices in the first place. Insulin should be free for everyone to produce and to sell, then prices would go down on their own. Of course, this doesn't mean the USA shouldn't implement "free" healthcare like we have in europe; just that that's not what the insulin problem comes down to.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Insulin has no patents anymore though. But making insulin reliably at the right quality is no easy feat. Thats why you dont have millions of insulin suppliers worldwide.
ekianjo 5y ago
because sure, we all know that health care and drugs cost nothing to make. i want to have free food too and free houses too, please add that to the list.
- AlexAndScripts 5y ago
  Works great here. It is paid for in taxes and the government doesn't take a cut every step, so the tax isn't that high. Also, food stamps etc are already a thing, and insulin is necessary to, like, live.
  - igorzx31 5y ago
    The middle class in europe pays 40-50% income tax rates.
    - sk0g 5y ago
      Don't see a single country [0] where that's true, and that's for average wages, which tends to be higher than the median wage. Mind you, the first infographic includes employer taxes as well, which should be left out of the discussion. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe
      - project2501a 5y ago
        you guys are great at refuting those people with facts. Keep at it!
      - ric2b 5y ago
        I live in Portugal and 40 to 50% on the middle-class is actually low-balling it by ignoring things like VAT, social security, the employers side of income tax and a bunch of other taxes.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    free housing where?

consp 5y ago

"free" is relative. For instance we have a tax on chronically ill people here called "eigenrisico" (literally your own risk) which is not a tax but is meant for people to not seek help unless it is absolutely necessary and then pay for the cost. Some things are excluded but as soon as you need more than basic help or any medicine it comes into play. So it's a tax on being ill in all but name since it resets every year. So "free" comes in many forms, not all single player.

caddybox 5y ago
I'd be wary of calling it a tax. As you pointed out it's an amount large enough to warr off spurious medical needs and small enough that if you're really injured or suffering, it can be extremely helpful and is a miniscule part of your medical fees. What's broken is the huisarts system where any efforts to get specialized care when you're in pain must pass through your GP. This often leads to a longer waiting period that can be excruciatingly painful for some.
- relaxing 5y ago
  In the US it’s called “needing a referral.”
  - kube-system 5y ago
    The literally translated equivalent in the US is a “deductible”.
    - sebmellen 5y ago
      “Eigenrisico” yes, but the Huisarts system is what GP was referring to as being analogous to “needing a referral”.
sschueller 5y ago
They have that in the US as well. It's called a copay I believe and it depends on insurance but is also do prevent people from going to seek help if it's minor.
neolog 5y ago
It's called a deductible in usa. https://h4i.nl/2018/11/30/health-insurance-understanding-eigen-risico/ https://h4i.nl/2018/11/30/health-insurance-understanding-eig...
nomercy400 5y ago
Did your intentionally leave out the annual 'basic healthcare' package of around 1500 euro you are required to have? It's not free.
- contravariant 5y ago
  Though with all other subsidies etc. it's effectively not that different from an additional income tax. To the point where I wonder why they don't just make it part of the income tax.
  - freemint 5y ago
    Certain communities such as the Amish have in the past and will in future go to DC and protest. They see it as an attack on their way of life which it is. It is just that there way of life is build on perpetuating the way of life of the Amish.
    - contravariant 5y ago
      Well yes I was talking about the Netherlands where you have a mandatory insurance, guaranteed to be the same amongst all insurers and for which the cost is subsidized for people with low or no income. At that point it's basically an income tax.
kwhitefoot 5y ago
Does eigenrisico apply to each event separately or is there an annual limit? We have a similar idea here in Norway. I pay about 20 euro to visit my GP and I pay for drugs. An MRI costs me about 25 euro. But there is a limit of about 200 euro per year. Anything I pay over that will be refunded in the tax settlement for the year and if I have a chronic need for drugs I will be given a frikort to exempt me from paying for them at the pharmacy.
- gattilorenz 5y ago
  In NL eigenrisico works like you describe (well, actually, it doesn't: after the eigenrisico you don't pay for stuff anymore, the insurance company covers the cost directly and you are not even billed), but is 350 euro, annually

DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago

This isn't a matter of free healthcare; it's a matter of getting rid of bullshit patents and licensing problems that allow companies to pull off their absurd prices in the first place. Insulin should be free for everyone to produce and to sell, then prices would go down on their own. Of course, this doesn't mean the USA shouldn't implement "free" healthcare like we have in europe; just that that's not what the insulin problem comes down to.

ekianjo 5y ago
Insulin has no patents anymore though. But making insulin reliably at the right quality is no easy feat. Thats why you dont have millions of insulin suppliers worldwide.

ekianjo 5y ago

because sure, we all know that health care and drugs cost nothing to make. i want to have free food too and free houses too, please add that to the list.

AlexAndScripts 5y ago
Works great here. It is paid for in taxes and the government doesn't take a cut every step, so the tax isn't that high. Also, food stamps etc are already a thing, and insulin is necessary to, like, live.
- igorzx31 5y ago
  The middle class in europe pays 40-50% income tax rates.
  - sk0g 5y ago
    Don't see a single country [0] where that's true, and that's for average wages, which tends to be higher than the median wage. Mind you, the first infographic includes employer taxes as well, which should be left out of the discussion. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe
    - project2501a 5y ago
      you guys are great at refuting those people with facts. Keep at it!
    - ric2b 5y ago
      I live in Portugal and 40 to 50% on the middle-class is actually low-balling it by ignoring things like VAT, social security, the employers side of income tax and a bunch of other taxes.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  free housing where?