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The part that I don't get about this is it rests on the narrative that such drastic societal collapse has happened on a grand scale. While small civilizations h

The part that I don't get about this is it rests on the narrative that such drastic societal collapse has happened on a grand scale. While small civilizations here and there have collapsed and political orders have gone away and been replaced by others at no point do we see humans descend into mass anarchy only to have to rebuild civilization. Many doomsayers point to the fall of Rome as a supposed example of a major power falling and descending people into some kind of 'dark age'. There are two problems with this. Firstly, the Romans didn't feel like they had actually fallen. As far as the people of the empire were concerned they were Roman even after the old roman imperial system went away. Instead of one exact 'date' of the fall of the empire, the empire slowly faded, and didn't really completely end until 1354 AD. By some people's imaginings, it still hasn't ended (namely the Hapsburgs who still claim to be the Holy Roman Emperor). Secondly, the dark ages as we imagine it didn't exist. The dark ages were not a time of sudden societal collapse. Rather they were a time of major growth. Lots of things happened during the 'dark ages'. Lots of discoveries made. Lots of voyages undertaken. Lots of empires arose and fell (but the people didn't really notice much). The idea that suddenly everything we know is going to go away and we're all going to have to huddle inside is, in my opinion, not founded in reality. It's sure fun to LARP though.

minikites 5y ago
>at no point do we see humans descend into mass anarchy only to have to rebuild civilization The Bronze Age Collapse is pretty close: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse
- iammisc 5y ago
  The key word is 'pretty close'. Firstly, if what I read is correct, it only impacted the mediterranean basin, whereas bronze age civilizations existed in China, India, and the Americas as well. As the article you linked points out, Egyptian and Greek civilizations were affected, but apparently there were other strong civilizations that were doing exceedingly well at the time at the expense of Egypt and Greece. That's my point. Certainly, from any one perspective, societies can collapse, but that's just a localized problem. Never have we seen humanity suddenly thrust wholesale into some fantastical dark age.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Globally today we are much more connected than the Mediterranean basin was back then. We are so interdependent on global stability now that any major local crisis has impacts everywhere.

minikites 5y ago

>at no point do we see humans descend into mass anarchy only to have to rebuild civilization The Bronze Age Collapse is pretty close: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse

iammisc 5y ago
The key word is 'pretty close'. Firstly, if what I read is correct, it only impacted the mediterranean basin, whereas bronze age civilizations existed in China, India, and the Americas as well. As the article you linked points out, Egyptian and Greek civilizations were affected, but apparently there were other strong civilizations that were doing exceedingly well at the time at the expense of Egypt and Greece. That's my point. Certainly, from any one perspective, societies can collapse, but that's just a localized problem. Never have we seen humanity suddenly thrust wholesale into some fantastical dark age.
- asdff 5y ago
  Globally today we are much more connected than the Mediterranean basin was back then. We are so interdependent on global stability now that any major local crisis has impacts everywhere.