4 ms·

Startup Airline to offer all-you-can-fly subscriptions for $150/m

25 points by mef 15y ago

blhack 15y ago
Am I the only one that absolutely hates these types of pages? "We really won't tell you any specifics of what we're doing, but give us your email address and we'll be sure to send you advertisements when we decide to!" Do these things usually work? If it's a YC startup, or is being done by a friend or something, I'll usually give up my email address, but when it's just "we promise the moon! We'll respect your email, honest!", I usually skip it.
- parfe 15y ago
  Of course you aren't the only person. For me it's the "Stealth Mode" job listings that say "Send us all your information and we might tell you what the company does or what the job entails!" I saw one like this on reddit which claimed to be a seed funded startup in NYC (which is my area, finally!) but didn't describe the company at all. I wonder if those anonymous ads or recruiting posts get any responses.
- mayneack 15y ago
  Just use username+PlaneRed@gmail.com so you can filter it all out later if it was a waste of time.
  - Retric 15y ago
    It's also vary easy to strip out username+<stuff>@gmail.com to username@gmail.com. Honestly, if I had a list of email address I was about to spam it's one of the first steps I would take.
    - IgorPartola 15y ago
      Then only use username+<stuff>@gmail.com and filter anything that goes directly to username@gmail.com :). I never found spam to be a problem when using GMail, and my e-mail address is publicly accessible in multiple places.
  - a3camero 15y ago
    Alternative: planered@yourdomain.com.
- iaskwhy 15y ago
  I like the idea and I have subscribed sometimes already without having ever been abused. But it has that potential, yes.
- bryanlarsen 15y ago
  Remember that you have a powerful weapon at your disposal. If you and a few others mark their emails as spam in GMail, all of their emails could start disappearing into the black hole, putting a serious crimp on their business.
mef 15y ago
From the welcome email, which also links to their blog http://planered.tumblr.com/ http://planered.tumblr.com/: Thanks for signing up! Our goal is to change the way we fly. No more buying outrageously priced tickets. No more lost luggage. No more middle seats in a cramped cabin. And no more TSA. By signing up we'll make sure you know what's happening as we build our airline - and you'll be among the first to know when we're ready to launch. A few weeks before we start flying we'll begin selling subscriptions. We will be rewarding our earliest supporters (the first 500), and those who recruit the most friends to PlaneRed with $150/month all-you-can-fly pricing. Obviously, the number of subscriptions we can sell at that price are pretty limited. So please - tell your friends to ensure that you get one!
- decadentcactus 15y ago
  It was my knowledge that it was difficult to go lower on prices in any way without losing money? The larger planes could take advantage of economies of scale, the only way to get lower fares would be to drastically reduce the cost of flying a plane in the first place. No lost luggage, more spacious interiors, and less TSA are always selling points though.
peteretep 15y ago
More from Forbes: http://blogs.forbes.com/edzitron/2011/06/29/planered/ http://blogs.forbes.com/edzitron/2011/06/29/planered/
- mef 15y ago
  Interestingly, they will exclusively fly 9-passenger planes in order to skirt the TSA rule of screening for planes that fly 10 or more.
  - seanmccann 15y ago
    I must be the only one that doesn't mind going through the TSA screening. It usually takes 2 minutes and isn't a big deal. The fact that these guys circumvent the TSA screening rule could almost make PlaneRed flights a greater target for malicious activity.
    - chopsueyar 15y ago
      Do you mean all 9 passengers being malicious?
    - jamesteow 15y ago
      "I must be the only one that doesn't mind going through the TSA screening." Probably. Lineups at the airport can be a lot longer than 2 minutes because of the slow pace of screening. And frisking children and the elderly? I feel so much safer. I don't see why any terrorist would need to re-target airplanes. They did their job in making flying into the U.S. as one of the most dreadful experiences.
    - ctdonath 15y ago
      A lot of people DO mind TSA security-theater rights-violating screening, and will go out of their way and pay notably more to avoid it. Many of us have stopped flying altogether for lack of a TSA-free option. Demand for alternatives is there, the capabilities are there, just need someone to work out the logistics.
  - pitdesi 15y ago
eiji 15y ago
Now I got it! ... starting at $150/m! Add one or two zeros and you will be closer to the truth.
bengl3rt 15y ago
I want to work here. Does anyone know these people? (Hi Mike! When's your RTW trip?)
- kloncks 15y ago
  They're looking for "tech geniuses": https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968 https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968
seanmccann 15y ago
A two hour flight would cost at the very minimum $6000. With a maximum of 10 passengers, that works out to $600/ per passenger. I don't understand how they can offer this for $150/mo. Perhaps they bombard passengers with advertisements or do scientific experiments to them.
- Bostwick 15y ago
  From their blog (http://planered.tumblr.com/ http://planered.tumblr.com/): We’d like to get subscriptions down to $150 a month. In fact, we’re guaranteeing that rate to some early subscribers, and the top PlaneRed.com referrers. But, if at that rate we just can’t put enough planes in the sky to meet demand - we’ll have to charge a little more on the subscription - or add a small $25 cost for each flight. (We know - that ruins the ‘all you can fly’ but we’ve had several folks make passionate cases for doing so.) What do you think? Which would be better $250 a month, or $150 a month, and $25 per flight?
pitdesi 15y ago
This is a really tough sell... There is no screening for planes smaller than 10 passengers if there is no "sterile" area at either airport. This means that they'll have to fly into smaller airports, which (often) means you're further from the city, with no rental car, public transportation, etc. They will likely be flying small propeller planes, which many people don't like... props make sense for these short routes though because they are often faster, based on the fact that there is less time for takeoff and landing (they don't spend as much time "reaching altitude") I also don't like that they are trying to bootstrap based on folks buying these subscriptions which they have yet to launch, and that they plan to launch in a month. Very pyramid-scheme-like. I would love for it to work, but I just can't see this business model surviving. It reminds me a bit of independence air and Dayjet, both of which lasted less than a year. Also, this doesn't inspire confidence: https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968 https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968
- rocktronica 15y ago
  That tweet frustrates the hell out of me. Am I wrong to read "tech geniuses" as kind of condescending?
  - swalkergibson 15y ago
    I would think so. It seems like they are being genuine.
- ctdonath 15y ago
  This is a really easy sell... There is no demeaning 4th-Amendment-violating security-theater "screening" to submit to. This means that they'll have to fly into smaller airports, which (often) means you're closer to your endpoints, with no parking hassles, easy dropoff/pickup, etc. They will likely be flying small propeller planes, which many people prefer... I also like that they are trying to bootstrap into a functioning business ASAP without having to wait for big money and big arrangements to coalesce, and that they plan to launch in a month. Very make-it-happen Done-Manifesto-like. I would love for it to work, and I see this business model as inevitable given the simmering backlash against TSA and cattle-car airlines. It reminds me a bit of independence, liberty, and freedom, all of which have an ongoing struggle against oppressive polypragmonocracy.
Shenglong 15y ago
skip TSA Excuse me? This entire idea, even if realistic, is fraught with political risk: "Oh, you're flying 9 person-planes to avoid our law? One of the major airlines is lobbying against you? Well... time to change the law."
colinplamondon 15y ago
The $150 is a teaser rate. From their email: "A few weeks before we start flying we'll begin selling subscriptions. We will be rewarding our earliest supporters (the first 500), and those who recruit the most friends to PlaneRed with $150/month all-you-can-fly pricing. Obviously, the number of subscriptions we can sell at that price are pretty limited. So please - tell your friends to ensure that you get one!"
sedachv 15y ago
If they're bootstrapped as they say they are, and can get revenue right away, more power to them. Air taxis were supposed to be the hot new thing in 2008. I think Ron Garrett (cofounder of what became Virgin Charter) has an account on HN; I hope he'll comment.
kloncks 15y ago
Cool idea. But a) How in god's name do they keep costs to $150/month for only 9 passengers. Those passengers will collectively pay $1350 a month for unlimited flights? Are they assuming the majority will end up only flying once or twice? What if they get mostly business guys that fly a couple of times a week. I don't get pricing. One ticket costs more than $150. b) What stops the TSA from simply stepping in and deeming this a security risk? Limit goes from 9 passengers to 5. Or 4. Etc. c) Even if the TSA doesn't step in and change the law, how does this guarantee safety? I'm not a fan of TSA and as an Arab flying I'm permanently chosen for the "random check"...but there's a reason airport security exists, no? d) What about this team makes us think they can build it? They're bootstrapped and trying to buy planes. Using early customer deposits. And their tech team is recruited via a tweet ( https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968 https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968) So seriously, if these guys don't have tech talent or deep pockets, what do they bring to the table? e) There's no mention on whether the big airports would allow this to go on. "Flying from New York to D.C." : Would that entail driving out somewhere random in Jersey and landing somewhere random far away in Virginia far away from D.C.? f) "Luxurious" 9-person planes. Luxury here is subjective. Is it a Gulfstream V or a Cessna Caravan? g) Booking. Besides the fact that they're looking for tech geniuses to build their system via Twitter, any idea on what booking will look like? Will I have to book in advance? How big will the airline "fleet" be? If I'm on an "all-you-can-eat" flight model, I'd expect to be able to log on today and book a flight for Philly tomorrow or the day after. That's what Net Jets does. I like what they're promising. But there are just a ton of really important tough questions that they seriously need to answer.
chrisbennet 15y ago
How many people are going to click past the "Let us harvest your email address and we'll let you know the details" landing page?

25 points by mef 15y ago

Am I the only one that absolutely hates these types of pages? "We really won't tell you any specifics of what we're doing, but give us your email address and we'll be sure to send you advertisements when we decide to!" Do these things usually work? If it's a YC startup, or is being done by a friend or something, I'll usually give up my email address, but when it's just "we promise the moon! We'll respect your email, honest!", I usually skip it.

parfe 15y ago
Of course you aren't the only person. For me it's the "Stealth Mode" job listings that say "Send us all your information and we might tell you what the company does or what the job entails!" I saw one like this on reddit which claimed to be a seed funded startup in NYC (which is my area, finally!) but didn't describe the company at all. I wonder if those anonymous ads or recruiting posts get any responses.
mayneack 15y ago
Just use username+PlaneRed@gmail.com so you can filter it all out later if it was a waste of time.
- Retric 15y ago
  It's also vary easy to strip out username+<stuff>@gmail.com to username@gmail.com. Honestly, if I had a list of email address I was about to spam it's one of the first steps I would take.
  - IgorPartola 15y ago
    Then only use username+<stuff>@gmail.com and filter anything that goes directly to username@gmail.com :). I never found spam to be a problem when using GMail, and my e-mail address is publicly accessible in multiple places.
- a3camero 15y ago
  Alternative: planered@yourdomain.com.
iaskwhy 15y ago
I like the idea and I have subscribed sometimes already without having ever been abused. But it has that potential, yes.
bryanlarsen 15y ago
Remember that you have a powerful weapon at your disposal. If you and a few others mark their emails as spam in GMail, all of their emails could start disappearing into the black hole, putting a serious crimp on their business.

mef 15y ago

From the welcome email, which also links to their blog http://planered.tumblr.com/ http://planered.tumblr.com/: Thanks for signing up! Our goal is to change the way we fly. No more buying outrageously priced tickets. No more lost luggage. No more middle seats in a cramped cabin. And no more TSA. By signing up we'll make sure you know what's happening as we build our airline - and you'll be among the first to know when we're ready to launch. A few weeks before we start flying we'll begin selling subscriptions. We will be rewarding our earliest supporters (the first 500), and those who recruit the most friends to PlaneRed with $150/month all-you-can-fly pricing. Obviously, the number of subscriptions we can sell at that price are pretty limited. So please - tell your friends to ensure that you get one!

decadentcactus 15y ago
It was my knowledge that it was difficult to go lower on prices in any way without losing money? The larger planes could take advantage of economies of scale, the only way to get lower fares would be to drastically reduce the cost of flying a plane in the first place. No lost luggage, more spacious interiors, and less TSA are always selling points though.

peteretep 15y ago

More from Forbes: http://blogs.forbes.com/edzitron/2011/06/29/planered/ http://blogs.forbes.com/edzitron/2011/06/29/planered/

mef 15y ago
Interestingly, they will exclusively fly 9-passenger planes in order to skirt the TSA rule of screening for planes that fly 10 or more.
- seanmccann 15y ago
  I must be the only one that doesn't mind going through the TSA screening. It usually takes 2 minutes and isn't a big deal. The fact that these guys circumvent the TSA screening rule could almost make PlaneRed flights a greater target for malicious activity.
  - chopsueyar 15y ago
    Do you mean all 9 passengers being malicious?
  - jamesteow 15y ago
    "I must be the only one that doesn't mind going through the TSA screening." Probably. Lineups at the airport can be a lot longer than 2 minutes because of the slow pace of screening. And frisking children and the elderly? I feel so much safer. I don't see why any terrorist would need to re-target airplanes. They did their job in making flying into the U.S. as one of the most dreadful experiences.
  - ctdonath 15y ago
    A lot of people DO mind TSA security-theater rights-violating screening, and will go out of their way and pay notably more to avoid it. Many of us have stopped flying altogether for lack of a TSA-free option. Demand for alternatives is there, the capabilities are there, just need someone to work out the logistics.
- pitdesi 15y ago

eiji 15y ago

Now I got it! ... starting at $150/m! Add one or two zeros and you will be closer to the truth.

bengl3rt 15y ago

I want to work here. Does anyone know these people? (Hi Mike! When's your RTW trip?)

kloncks 15y ago
They're looking for "tech geniuses": https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968 https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968

seanmccann 15y ago

A two hour flight would cost at the very minimum $6000. With a maximum of 10 passengers, that works out to $600/ per passenger. I don't understand how they can offer this for $150/mo. Perhaps they bombard passengers with advertisements or do scientific experiments to them.

Bostwick 15y ago
From their blog (http://planered.tumblr.com/ http://planered.tumblr.com/): We’d like to get subscriptions down to $150 a month. In fact, we’re guaranteeing that rate to some early subscribers, and the top PlaneRed.com referrers. But, if at that rate we just can’t put enough planes in the sky to meet demand - we’ll have to charge a little more on the subscription - or add a small $25 cost for each flight. (We know - that ruins the ‘all you can fly’ but we’ve had several folks make passionate cases for doing so.) What do you think? Which would be better $250 a month, or $150 a month, and $25 per flight?

pitdesi 15y ago

This is a really tough sell... There is no screening for planes smaller than 10 passengers if there is no "sterile" area at either airport. This means that they'll have to fly into smaller airports, which (often) means you're further from the city, with no rental car, public transportation, etc. They will likely be flying small propeller planes, which many people don't like... props make sense for these short routes though because they are often faster, based on the fact that there is less time for takeoff and landing (they don't spend as much time "reaching altitude") I also don't like that they are trying to bootstrap based on folks buying these subscriptions which they have yet to launch, and that they plan to launch in a month. Very pyramid-scheme-like. I would love for it to work, but I just can't see this business model surviving. It reminds me a bit of independence air and Dayjet, both of which lasted less than a year. Also, this doesn't inspire confidence: https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968 https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968

rocktronica 15y ago
That tweet frustrates the hell out of me. Am I wrong to read "tech geniuses" as kind of condescending?
- swalkergibson 15y ago
  I would think so. It seems like they are being genuine.
ctdonath 15y ago
This is a really easy sell... There is no demeaning 4th-Amendment-violating security-theater "screening" to submit to. This means that they'll have to fly into smaller airports, which (often) means you're closer to your endpoints, with no parking hassles, easy dropoff/pickup, etc. They will likely be flying small propeller planes, which many people prefer... I also like that they are trying to bootstrap into a functioning business ASAP without having to wait for big money and big arrangements to coalesce, and that they plan to launch in a month. Very make-it-happen Done-Manifesto-like. I would love for it to work, and I see this business model as inevitable given the simmering backlash against TSA and cattle-car airlines. It reminds me a bit of independence, liberty, and freedom, all of which have an ongoing struggle against oppressive polypragmonocracy.

Shenglong 15y ago

skip TSA Excuse me? This entire idea, even if realistic, is fraught with political risk: "Oh, you're flying 9 person-planes to avoid our law? One of the major airlines is lobbying against you? Well... time to change the law."

colinplamondon 15y ago

The $150 is a teaser rate. From their email: "A few weeks before we start flying we'll begin selling subscriptions. We will be rewarding our earliest supporters (the first 500), and those who recruit the most friends to PlaneRed with $150/month all-you-can-fly pricing. Obviously, the number of subscriptions we can sell at that price are pretty limited. So please - tell your friends to ensure that you get one!"

sedachv 15y ago

If they're bootstrapped as they say they are, and can get revenue right away, more power to them. Air taxis were supposed to be the hot new thing in 2008. I think Ron Garrett (cofounder of what became Virgin Charter) has an account on HN; I hope he'll comment.

kloncks 15y ago

Cool idea. But a) How in god's name do they keep costs to $150/month for only 9 passengers. Those passengers will collectively pay $1350 a month for unlimited flights? Are they assuming the majority will end up only flying once or twice? What if they get mostly business guys that fly a couple of times a week. I don't get pricing. One ticket costs more than $150. b) What stops the TSA from simply stepping in and deeming this a security risk? Limit goes from 9 passengers to 5. Or 4. Etc. c) Even if the TSA doesn't step in and change the law, how does this guarantee safety? I'm not a fan of TSA and as an Arab flying I'm permanently chosen for the "random check"...but there's a reason airport security exists, no? d) What about this team makes us think they can build it? They're bootstrapped and trying to buy planes. Using early customer deposits. And their tech team is recruited via a tweet ( https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968 https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968) So seriously, if these guys don't have tech talent or deep pockets, what do they bring to the table? e) There's no mention on whether the big airports would allow this to go on. "Flying from New York to D.C." : Would that entail driving out somewhere random in Jersey and landing somewhere random far away in Virginia far away from D.C.? f) "Luxurious" 9-person planes. Luxury here is subjective. Is it a Gulfstream V or a Cessna Caravan? g) Booking. Besides the fact that they're looking for tech geniuses to build their system via Twitter, any idea on what booking will look like? Will I have to book in advance? How big will the airline "fleet" be? If I'm on an "all-you-can-eat" flight model, I'd expect to be able to log on today and book a flight for Philly tomorrow or the day after. That's what Net Jets does. I like what they're promising. But there are just a ton of really important tough questions that they seriously need to answer.

chrisbennet 15y ago

How many people are going to click past the "Let us harvest your email address and we'll let you know the details" landing page?