5 ms·

That's fair, I only say 6,000 seems feasible since I'm in NYC which absolutely has a homeless issue as well, but there's capacity for 10s of thousands. Of cour

That's fair, I only say 6,000 seems feasible since I'm in NYC which absolutely has a homeless issue as well, but there's capacity for 10s of thousands. Of course, the current NYC capacity isn't enough for the number of homeless in NYC, but it's proof that housing and support for thousands of homeless people is possible by a city.

DoreenMichele 5y ago
Providing shelter for homeless people without making them not homeless doesn't resolve the problem. Homelessness is a symptom of deep issues in the US. We have broken housing policy. We have bad healthcare policy. We have saddled a lot of people with student loans under conditions where the loans are a huge burden and the education they got wasn't the slam dunk solution to making life work that we convinced them it would be. Homelessness means "The lives of these people simply don't work for some reason." Lack of housing is one element of that, but it's not the entire issue. We need to design an America where the lives of most ordinary people work again. Where you don't need a college degree or can get one without it being an undo burden. One where if you are willing to work and aren't a criminal etc, then it's possible to make your life work. There's no single thing that will get us there, though fixing our broken housing policy such that affordable housing can exist again would be an important step forward.
- bern4444 5y ago
  Of course, but I think providing shelter, food, stability even in the short term is a necessary first step. I know one issue a lot of homeless who are working to get back up on their feet face is even having a stable address to receive mail or include when applying to jobs etc. I'm with you that there are many other issues and that homelessness is one symptom of a problem, but providing some stability through housing and food seems like a productive, and achievable first step for a city government to accomplish.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    but providing some stability through housing and food seems like a productive, and achievable first step for a city government to accomplish. The problem is how it's done. I've eaten in soup kitchens. It tends to be lousy food and I was homeless because I have a serious medical condition and I eating healthy is critical to my ability to function at all. A lot of homeless people have serious health issues and the attitude is "Beggars can't be choosers. Eat the free stuff that's been put in front of you." when sometimes that free stuff is actively harming their health and if you count the medical cost for requiring more medication and the opportunity cost in lost wages because they remain too sick to work, that "free meal" is an expensive as hell choice to make. The longer I was on the street, the more I avoided things like soup kitchens, which not only tend to provide lousy food, they expose you to other people who are sick, coughing, haven't bathed recently, and are smoking either cigarettes or marijuana. I have a respiratory condition and am, additionally, allergic to marijuana. Soup kitchens were a nightmare. What I think we ought to do is expand the food stamp program and lower the barriers to getting food stamps. Food stamps are put on a card, much like a debit card, and you spend it as you see fit and it gives you access to normal middle class food sources, like grocery stores. Food is absolutely an essential and good quality food programs help protect the health of the people and mitigate the impacts of poverty, but many things aimed at "helping the homeless" are amazingly bad to the point of being mostly counterproductive in my first-hand experience as someone who was homeless for nearly 6 years. And when you are homeless, no one wants to hear your criticisms of this terrible program and how it doesn't actually meet your need. They expect you to be grateful while putting a gun to your head and saying "If you aren't eating at the awful soup kitchen, it's your own damn fault you can't solve your problems." We really don't do a good job of helping America's poor access opportunity. This is no longer the land of opportunity and that's the crux of the problem. If you can't already afford a new car and a big house, your life is likely slipping into the toilet rather than climbing towards a better future and it's incredibly hard to fight against the many trends pushing you down as just an individual being crushed under the boot of myriad larger forces. I would like to see more mail services for the homeless generally, but the shelter system seems to be as bad as soup kitchens or worse and I never once spent the night in a homeless shelter.
  - browningstreet 5y ago
    Here in Reno they built an extensive homeless shelter with services. Every night there are empty beds and homeless people all over the city. I’m not entirely sure it’s as simple as “build them housing and they’ll get off the streets”. That said, if it is, then I’m all for it.
    - AlexAndScripts 5y ago
      Why don't they go there?
hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
Interestingly, by law New York City must provide shelter to anyone in the city who is homeless, qualifies for relief and requests shelter. So it's not just that city government happens to be more supportive of its social services programs, there's an actual legal obligation to shelter everyone (and they can, and have been, sued if they don't meet that obligation). https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/our-programs/advocacy/legal-victories/the-callahan-legacy-callahan-v-carey-and-the-legal-right-to-shelter/ https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/our-programs/advocac...

DoreenMichele 5y ago

Providing shelter for homeless people without making them not homeless doesn't resolve the problem. Homelessness is a symptom of deep issues in the US. We have broken housing policy. We have bad healthcare policy. We have saddled a lot of people with student loans under conditions where the loans are a huge burden and the education they got wasn't the slam dunk solution to making life work that we convinced them it would be. Homelessness means "The lives of these people simply don't work for some reason." Lack of housing is one element of that, but it's not the entire issue. We need to design an America where the lives of most ordinary people work again. Where you don't need a college degree or can get one without it being an undo burden. One where if you are willing to work and aren't a criminal etc, then it's possible to make your life work. There's no single thing that will get us there, though fixing our broken housing policy such that affordable housing can exist again would be an important step forward.

bern4444 5y ago
Of course, but I think providing shelter, food, stability even in the short term is a necessary first step. I know one issue a lot of homeless who are working to get back up on their feet face is even having a stable address to receive mail or include when applying to jobs etc. I'm with you that there are many other issues and that homelessness is one symptom of a problem, but providing some stability through housing and food seems like a productive, and achievable first step for a city government to accomplish.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  but providing some stability through housing and food seems like a productive, and achievable first step for a city government to accomplish. The problem is how it's done. I've eaten in soup kitchens. It tends to be lousy food and I was homeless because I have a serious medical condition and I eating healthy is critical to my ability to function at all. A lot of homeless people have serious health issues and the attitude is "Beggars can't be choosers. Eat the free stuff that's been put in front of you." when sometimes that free stuff is actively harming their health and if you count the medical cost for requiring more medication and the opportunity cost in lost wages because they remain too sick to work, that "free meal" is an expensive as hell choice to make. The longer I was on the street, the more I avoided things like soup kitchens, which not only tend to provide lousy food, they expose you to other people who are sick, coughing, haven't bathed recently, and are smoking either cigarettes or marijuana. I have a respiratory condition and am, additionally, allergic to marijuana. Soup kitchens were a nightmare. What I think we ought to do is expand the food stamp program and lower the barriers to getting food stamps. Food stamps are put on a card, much like a debit card, and you spend it as you see fit and it gives you access to normal middle class food sources, like grocery stores. Food is absolutely an essential and good quality food programs help protect the health of the people and mitigate the impacts of poverty, but many things aimed at "helping the homeless" are amazingly bad to the point of being mostly counterproductive in my first-hand experience as someone who was homeless for nearly 6 years. And when you are homeless, no one wants to hear your criticisms of this terrible program and how it doesn't actually meet your need. They expect you to be grateful while putting a gun to your head and saying "If you aren't eating at the awful soup kitchen, it's your own damn fault you can't solve your problems." We really don't do a good job of helping America's poor access opportunity. This is no longer the land of opportunity and that's the crux of the problem. If you can't already afford a new car and a big house, your life is likely slipping into the toilet rather than climbing towards a better future and it's incredibly hard to fight against the many trends pushing you down as just an individual being crushed under the boot of myriad larger forces. I would like to see more mail services for the homeless generally, but the shelter system seems to be as bad as soup kitchens or worse and I never once spent the night in a homeless shelter.
- browningstreet 5y ago
  Here in Reno they built an extensive homeless shelter with services. Every night there are empty beds and homeless people all over the city. I’m not entirely sure it’s as simple as “build them housing and they’ll get off the streets”. That said, if it is, then I’m all for it.
  - AlexAndScripts 5y ago
    Why don't they go there?

hoppyhoppy2 5y ago

Interestingly, by law New York City must provide shelter to anyone in the city who is homeless, qualifies for relief and requests shelter. So it's not just that city government happens to be more supportive of its social services programs, there's an actual legal obligation to shelter everyone (and they can, and have been, sued if they don't meet that obligation). https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/our-programs/advocacy/legal-victories/the-callahan-legacy-callahan-v-carey-and-the-legal-right-to-shelter/ https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/our-programs/advocac...