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> I don't believe the same people who champion a UBI would suddenly become cold and say to a disabled recipient, "No, you will not get extra money because of yo

by xienze 5y ago

> I don't believe the same people who champion a UBI would suddenly become cold and say to a disabled recipient, "No, you will not get extra money because of your special needs. You will get nothing else because we dismantled your welfare benefits in order to give everyone a UBI." Yep, I’ve been saying this forever. Once UBI is implemented you’re going to hear countless sob stories about how <some unexpected event occurred> and now the UBI recipient can’t afford food or rent. So there will be a push to implement some sort of emergency backstop behind UBI for these situations. And then a number of people will learn to exploit this system for extra bucks by claiming some sort of emergency, every single month. The problem with all these feel good social programs is that the proponents always assume that everyone will behave properly and follow the rules as intended. They never account for the 10-20% of people who just want to game the system and ultimately cause its downfall.

pavlov 5y ago
> ”The problem with all these feel good social programs is that the proponents always assume that everyone will behave properly and follow the rules as intended. They never account for the 10-20% of people who just want to game the system and ultimately cause its downfall.” No social program in the world ever accounted for fraud, and every one of them has suffered a terrifying downfall. Where once prospered the Kingdom of Sweden now only a barren crater remains, laid to waste by naive social programs.
heavyset_go 5y ago
> They never account for the 10-20% of people who just want to game the system and ultimately cause its downfall. Your estimate is off by an order of magnitude or two. Welfare programs have fraud rates in ranging from tenths of a percent to a couple of percentage points[1]. Most of that fraud is actually conducted by businesses that are serving customers who receive benefits. [1] https://ivn.us/2014/04/01/really-responsible-welfare-fraud https://ivn.us/2014/04/01/really-responsible-welfare-fraud

by xienze 5y ago

pavlov 5y ago

> ”The problem with all these feel good social programs is that the proponents always assume that everyone will behave properly and follow the rules as intended. They never account for the 10-20% of people who just want to game the system and ultimately cause its downfall.” No social program in the world ever accounted for fraud, and every one of them has suffered a terrifying downfall. Where once prospered the Kingdom of Sweden now only a barren crater remains, laid to waste by naive social programs.

heavyset_go 5y ago

> They never account for the 10-20% of people who just want to game the system and ultimately cause its downfall. Your estimate is off by an order of magnitude or two. Welfare programs have fraud rates in ranging from tenths of a percent to a couple of percentage points[1]. Most of that fraud is actually conducted by businesses that are serving customers who receive benefits. [1] https://ivn.us/2014/04/01/really-responsible-welfare-fraud https://ivn.us/2014/04/01/really-responsible-welfare-fraud