7 ms·

Is the plan to make real identities publically viewable? Seems like it's either a data breach waiting to happen or makes it much easier for the worst to dox an

Is the plan to make real identities publically viewable? Seems like it's either a data breach waiting to happen or makes it much easier for the worst to dox and target people.

closeparen 5y ago
The whole premise of “doxing” being a problem is that people have a right to say things on the internet that would get them in trouble in real life. I think the pro-real-names position would argue that it is net negative for society for people to have this ability, we should only be saying aloud what we are willing to put our reputations behind. I don’t agree with this position, but afaik that’s the position.
- ellenhp 5y ago
  I know you said you don't agree but you left that position up without a rebuttal so here goes. What if someone managed to dump of the personal information of everyone in an online support group for LGBT folks and published it. That's doxxing too and this would do nothing to mitigate it.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
    This isn't the 60s. Most LGBT in western democracies are out. But, yeah, there are exceptions and corner cases to everything. I believe the fundamental idea is that "real" life didn't used to be like that, nor is it today. You just don't see the stuff you see online happening at the corner store. And the difference is that it's people you might see again, or can call the police on, or just recognise as fellow humans. The problem of anonymity sometimes being required also isn't entirely new. There have long been guarantees (or attempts at such) of anonymity for situations where the need for it was generally acknowledged. In one such case, the organisation even adopted it as their name: Alcoholics Anonymous.
    - pjc50 5y ago
      Trans people are not necessarily out, and are particularly subject to harrasment at the moment when outed as a particularly noisy and dangerous anti-trans campaign is going on on the UK internet. The people doing the harrasment do so under their own names.
    - stevenicr 5y ago
      Also like to add that many "corner cases" would see less engagement - people would avoid getting mental help, support groups, religion questions, sexual health, etc if they worried it would be easy to be exposed.
- hexa22 5y ago
  Doxing is far greater than being canceled for a reddit comment. An open source dev recently got doxed and had 4channers banging on their house windows at night. Swatting and similar activity is also an extreme problem.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    > An open source dev recently got doxed and had 4channers banging on their house windows at night. As far as I know, this hasn't been confirmed by anyone other than the dev themself yet. The personal information is also not in the archive, so someone (4chan staff or archive staff) did their job. We'll have to wait and see for the truth of that case, if it ever comes to light.
    - stevenicr 5y ago
      I agree that great claims sometimes need great proof - and I am skeptical of that particular story. However I also agree with gp(?) swatting and similar is a problem. I've experienced these things from internet things - resulted in knocks on the door, 'certified letters' - and pics of my house posted online with people on said blog asking others to drive by and honk.. I'm talking three separate incidents by two or three different people for different reasons - all from internet. luckily for us it was more nerve racking that people were trying these things and nothing aside from the knocks became an issue - well one of them cost me a business relationship now that I think about it.
- irthomasthomas 5y ago
  There is a strong desire in some to avoid fame. Anonymity solves that. Names risk fame.
- handrous 5y ago
  I dislike the way the 'net has gone such that this kind of measure is probably inevitable—I prefer one that's anonymous-by-default where revealing your real identity is strongly discouraged by norms and it's hard to gain anything "real" by revealing it, anyway, so there's little incentive to—but on the anti-anonymity side, I'd agree it's pretty damn weird that we treat shouting crazy or abusive shit (or anything, really) into a world-reach megaphone with so little gravity, or expect anonymity when doing so.
- shakna 5y ago
  > The whole premise of “doxing” being a problem is that people have a right to say things on the internet that would get them in trouble in real life. Mmm. In some cases terribly dangerous things to their health, like being gay in a country that forbids it. Or criticising a government that forbids it. Or saying something that only becomes illegal or publicly reprehensible after the fact.

Is the plan to make real identities publically viewable? Seems like it's either a data breach waiting to happen or makes it much easier for the worst to dox and target people.

closeparen 5y ago

The whole premise of “doxing” being a problem is that people have a right to say things on the internet that would get them in trouble in real life. I think the pro-real-names position would argue that it is net negative for society for people to have this ability, we should only be saying aloud what we are willing to put our reputations behind. I don’t agree with this position, but afaik that’s the position.

ellenhp 5y ago
I know you said you don't agree but you left that position up without a rebuttal so here goes. What if someone managed to dump of the personal information of everyone in an online support group for LGBT folks and published it. That's doxxing too and this would do nothing to mitigate it.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
  This isn't the 60s. Most LGBT in western democracies are out. But, yeah, there are exceptions and corner cases to everything. I believe the fundamental idea is that "real" life didn't used to be like that, nor is it today. You just don't see the stuff you see online happening at the corner store. And the difference is that it's people you might see again, or can call the police on, or just recognise as fellow humans. The problem of anonymity sometimes being required also isn't entirely new. There have long been guarantees (or attempts at such) of anonymity for situations where the need for it was generally acknowledged. In one such case, the organisation even adopted it as their name: Alcoholics Anonymous.
  - pjc50 5y ago
    Trans people are not necessarily out, and are particularly subject to harrasment at the moment when outed as a particularly noisy and dangerous anti-trans campaign is going on on the UK internet. The people doing the harrasment do so under their own names.
  - stevenicr 5y ago
    Also like to add that many "corner cases" would see less engagement - people would avoid getting mental help, support groups, religion questions, sexual health, etc if they worried it would be easy to be exposed.
hexa22 5y ago
Doxing is far greater than being canceled for a reddit comment. An open source dev recently got doxed and had 4channers banging on their house windows at night. Swatting and similar activity is also an extreme problem.
- Zababa 5y ago
  > An open source dev recently got doxed and had 4channers banging on their house windows at night. As far as I know, this hasn't been confirmed by anyone other than the dev themself yet. The personal information is also not in the archive, so someone (4chan staff or archive staff) did their job. We'll have to wait and see for the truth of that case, if it ever comes to light.
  - stevenicr 5y ago
    I agree that great claims sometimes need great proof - and I am skeptical of that particular story. However I also agree with gp(?) swatting and similar is a problem. I've experienced these things from internet things - resulted in knocks on the door, 'certified letters' - and pics of my house posted online with people on said blog asking others to drive by and honk.. I'm talking three separate incidents by two or three different people for different reasons - all from internet. luckily for us it was more nerve racking that people were trying these things and nothing aside from the knocks became an issue - well one of them cost me a business relationship now that I think about it.
irthomasthomas 5y ago
There is a strong desire in some to avoid fame. Anonymity solves that. Names risk fame.
handrous 5y ago
I dislike the way the 'net has gone such that this kind of measure is probably inevitable—I prefer one that's anonymous-by-default where revealing your real identity is strongly discouraged by norms and it's hard to gain anything "real" by revealing it, anyway, so there's little incentive to—but on the anti-anonymity side, I'd agree it's pretty damn weird that we treat shouting crazy or abusive shit (or anything, really) into a world-reach megaphone with so little gravity, or expect anonymity when doing so.
shakna 5y ago
> The whole premise of “doxing” being a problem is that people have a right to say things on the internet that would get them in trouble in real life. Mmm. In some cases terribly dangerous things to their health, like being gay in a country that forbids it. Or criticising a government that forbids it. Or saying something that only becomes illegal or publicly reprehensible after the fact.