4 ms·

I was not talking about everything being an object. I was talking about that claim being the key to being nice and comfortable. Many sibling comments, IMHO, mi

I was not talking about everything being an object. I was talking about that claim being the key to being nice and comfortable. Many sibling comments, IMHO, miss the point of the parent and focus on the claim about python and js. Python and js could perhaps have been completely object based. It still wouldn't make them comfortable for many.

xkriva11 5y ago
The sentence says that it makes Pharo clean and comfortable to learn. Not that it makes every language clean and comfortable to learn :-)
- egeozcan 5y ago
  Yes and the comment I replied to vaguely suggested that it didn't make python and js comfortable to learn and everyone focused on the fact that in these languages not everything is an object.
goatlover 5y ago
True, but personally I think JS and Python would have benefitted from being more consistent about being object based. JS in particular, since it's prototypal, but has function constructors and class syntax, along with other things added over time that make the language more complex.
pjmlp 5y ago
While Python wasn't born pure object based, it is definetly object based in its current version. Python 3.9.5 (default, May 27 2021, 19:45:35) [GCC 9.3.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> x = 1 >>> type(x) <class 'int'> >>> dir(x) ['__abs__', '__add__', '__and__', '__bool__', '__ceil__', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dir__', '__divmod __', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__float__', '__floor__', '__floordiv__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribut e__', '__getnewargs__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__index__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__int__', '__ invert__', '__le__', '__lshift__', '__lt__', '__mod__', '__mul__', '__ne__', '__neg__', '__new__', '__or__ ', '__pos__', '__pow__', '__radd__', '__rand__', '__rdivmod__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__rfloordiv__', '__rlshift__', '__rmod__', '__rmul__', '__ror__', '__round__', '__rpow__', '__rrshift__' , '__rshift__', '__rsub__', '__rtruediv__', '__rxor__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__sub__', '__subclasshook__', '__truediv__', '__trunc__', '__xor__', 'as_integer_ratio', 'bit_length', 'conjugate', 'denominator', 'from_bytes', 'imag', 'numerator', 'real', 'to_bytes'] >>> >>> y = [2] >>> type(y) <class 'list'> >>> dir(y) ['__add__', '__class__', '__class_getitem__', '__contains__', '__delattr__', '__delitem__', '__dir__', '__ doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__', '__getitem__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__iadd __', '__imul__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__', '__mul__', '_ _ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__reversed__', '__rmul__', '__setattr__', ' __setitem__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__', 'append', 'clear', 'copy', 'count', 'extend', ' index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort'] >>> >>> def sum(a, b): return a + b ... >>> sum <function sum at 0x7f673429d1f0> >>> dir(sum) ['__annotations__', '__call__', '__class__', '__closure__', '__code__', '__defaults__', '__delattr__', '__ dict__', '__dir__', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__get__', '__getattribute__', '__globals __', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__kwdefaults__', '__le__', '__lt__', '__modul e__', '__name__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__qualname__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setat tr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__'] Apparently everyone keeps forgetting that after the new class type declarations were introduced and the primitive types made subclasses of them, everything in Python is an object as well.
- egeozcan 5y ago
  I think you are replying to the wrong comment. That's not even my point.

xkriva11 5y ago

The sentence says that it makes Pharo clean and comfortable to learn. Not that it makes every language clean and comfortable to learn :-)

egeozcan 5y ago
Yes and the comment I replied to vaguely suggested that it didn't make python and js comfortable to learn and everyone focused on the fact that in these languages not everything is an object.

goatlover 5y ago

True, but personally I think JS and Python would have benefitted from being more consistent about being object based. JS in particular, since it's prototypal, but has function constructors and class syntax, along with other things added over time that make the language more complex.

pjmlp 5y ago

While Python wasn't born pure object based, it is definetly object based in its current version. Python 3.9.5 (default, May 27 2021, 19:45:35) [GCC 9.3.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> x = 1 >>> type(x) <class 'int'> >>> dir(x) ['__abs__', '__add__', '__and__', '__bool__', '__ceil__', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dir__', '__divmod __', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__float__', '__floor__', '__floordiv__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribut e__', '__getnewargs__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__index__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__int__', '__ invert__', '__le__', '__lshift__', '__lt__', '__mod__', '__mul__', '__ne__', '__neg__', '__new__', '__or__ ', '__pos__', '__pow__', '__radd__', '__rand__', '__rdivmod__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__rfloordiv__', '__rlshift__', '__rmod__', '__rmul__', '__ror__', '__round__', '__rpow__', '__rrshift__' , '__rshift__', '__rsub__', '__rtruediv__', '__rxor__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__sub__', '__subclasshook__', '__truediv__', '__trunc__', '__xor__', 'as_integer_ratio', 'bit_length', 'conjugate', 'denominator', 'from_bytes', 'imag', 'numerator', 'real', 'to_bytes'] >>> >>> y = [2] >>> type(y) <class 'list'> >>> dir(y) ['__add__', '__class__', '__class_getitem__', '__contains__', '__delattr__', '__delitem__', '__dir__', '__ doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__', '__getitem__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__iadd __', '__imul__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__', '__mul__', '_ _ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__reversed__', '__rmul__', '__setattr__', ' __setitem__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__', 'append', 'clear', 'copy', 'count', 'extend', ' index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort'] >>> >>> def sum(a, b): return a + b ... >>> sum <function sum at 0x7f673429d1f0> >>> dir(sum) ['__annotations__', '__call__', '__class__', '__closure__', '__code__', '__defaults__', '__delattr__', '__ dict__', '__dir__', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__get__', '__getattribute__', '__globals __', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__kwdefaults__', '__le__', '__lt__', '__modul e__', '__name__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__qualname__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setat tr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__'] Apparently everyone keeps forgetting that after the new class type declarations were introduced and the primitive types made subclasses of them, everything in Python is an object as well.

egeozcan 5y ago
I think you are replying to the wrong comment. That's not even my point.