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I hope they put some effort into anticheat on Linux for their own games. Team Fortress 2 has been barely playable for the past year because of cheaters running
by dkdbejwi383 5y ago
I hope they put some effort into anticheat on Linux for their own games. Team Fortress 2 has been barely playable for the past year because of cheaters running bots using widely available software which Valve seemingly can’t detect on Linux.
- CreepGin 5y agoWith YOLOv4-based aimbots on the rise, it's really a losing battle even for the most anticheat infused games.
- episteme 5y agoNot sure what the connection is between YOLOv4 and difficulty of detection? Isn't YOLOv4 about object detection? No matter how good your object detection is, you need to read the game and influence the input which is the part an anticheat is trying to detect, no?
- sudosysgen 5y agoThere is no way to defeat an aimbot that just reads the screen, detects enemies, and moves a mouse.
- majormajor 5y agoThere are probably plenty of ways to tell "fake controller input from a bot" from "actual human controller input" today. Sounds like a scary arms-race, though. At some point the bots will probably be very hard to distinguish from "skilled human." It will be sad if online play becomes only enjoyable with people you already know. I'm surprised how gleeful some people seem to be about this sort of "soon cheating will be undectable!" tech advancement. Or you just go all-in on the surveillance path and there are models that look at your performance in the game over time, your performance in other games over time, etc. Mediocre player suddenly amazing? Probably a cheater! etc... Not great sounding privacy-wise, but Steam probably has access to the data to do this.
- the8472 5y ago> Sounds like a scary arms-race Or a GAN
- sudosysgen 5y agoAlso, there is enough variance amongst human that eventually the generator network can actually slip under the noise floor and become 100% undetectable.
- greenknight 5y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhK8lUfIlc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhK8lUfIlc They are using deep learning to detect hackers, since 2018
- mhh__ 5y agoAnd it's not working too well.
- mikenew 5y ago> There are probably plenty of ways to tell "fake controller input from a bot" from "actual human controller input" today. Only in the "do these movement patterns appear human-like or not" sense. These aim bots can use assistive devices to input mouse movements and there's no way to tell whether or not there's a human hand moving the mouse.
- sudosysgen 5y agoThere might be for now. You just have to train a second model that actually moves the cursor towards the target on normal player behaviour, eventually it becomes essentially perfect, and what then? As far as performance improvements, oh it's going to make the cheat programmers even more money as they implement a skill ramp up period and get to charge more. The only way in which I'm "gleeful" is that it might finally put an end to the spyware when we realize that controlling someone else's computer is a losing proposition. Otherwise yeah it does suck.
- nullsmack 5y ago
- kibwen 5y agoThat's kind of beside the point. Classic aimbots work by reading the game's memory, which means that you can aim at things that are on the other side of walls, or behind you, or obscured by smoke or darkness, or so far away that they don't even render. "Only" being able to aim at things that are actually visible is a significant step down from what we have today, which is the tradeoff for being almost impossible to detect.
- sudosysgen 5y agoActually, no, that's incorrect. You're thinking of wallhacks or wallhacks+aimbot Aimbots only aim at things you can see, it's one of their main features. That way you won't snap into someone's head through a wall which would make everyone know you're hacking and get you banned.
- kibwen 5y agoI'm no expert here but surely aimhacking originally implied wallhacking? The alternative requires doing actual image analysis in realtime, which AFAIK has only become feasible in the last decade and is way more processor-intensive than just reading coordinates in memory and doing some trig to adjust your aim height. Maybe this is selection bias talking, but I see plenty of videos of cheaters who are obviously just snapping to heads through walls.
- f1refly 5y agoSince you can check in memory where the enemies head is, you can obviously also check if theres a wall inbetween. Cheats for video games have had humanizing/cloaking forever.
- sudosysgen 5y agoYou don't actually need image analysis. There are tricks you can use to decide if an enemy is visible or not without it - obviously the game itself does it already to decide if it should draw the enemies to begin with :) Also yes these were invented a long time ago because people got caught snapping through the wall when CS servers started recording demos.
- brigade 5y agoOnly if it’s running on a separate computer and you’re passing your own mouse movements through that computer. I think it’s still typical for the ML aimbots to run on the same computer?
- sudosysgen 5y agoThere was a recent demo of one that didn't. With modern hardware you can run Yolo on an RPi 4 with an 8$ capture card and a Teensy as USB HID for like 50$, you could definitely charge 200$ for it as a cheating appliance. BRB I'm gonna ask for VC funding (just joking)
- blooalien 5y ago> "BRB I'm gonna ask for VC funding (just joking)" I dunno … Mebbe you should run do that right now, before someone else does … Get that price down by around half and most every gamer everywhere can afford your shiny new "modern game genie"; Once everyone can cheat, the original cheaters have nowhere left to hide. They're on even footing with everyone else. Cheater problem solved! ;)
- CamperBob2 5y agoHow about: every time you snipe someone from an implausible distance, you have to identify some crosswalks and traffic lights before the score is counted.
- spyder 5y agoCaptcha in games, oh no :O
- bobsmooth 5y agoI had never considered an ML-based aimbot until now. That's both amusing and infuriating.
- azinman2 5y agoNon-gamer here: what’s the point of these bots? Is there money as stake? Or just a leader chart? But if you get your bot to #1, but you’re not able to do anything with it and it’s a bot, what’s the incentive?
- neaden 5y agoFor some people, causing frustration and annoyance in others is all the incentive they need. But in this case also, possibly hats.
- TchoBeer 5y agoSome men just want to watch the world burn
- KillahBhyte 5y agoDepends a lot on the game. If there is nothing to be 'earned' by being competitively better then it is nothing more than street cred. Think simple games or older games. CS 1.6 before rewards, knifes, and skins. A small few players might make some comp scene to get to some incentive but most are ultimately found out. The bigger issue, and I believe the primary reason for the rise in popularity of these bots, is when your performance does 'earn' you something. As the OP was speaking of TF2, this comes in the form of hats and custom weapons. Today's counterstrike game has weapon skins and knifes that go for pretty extreme real world dollars. Almost every modern shooter has some sort of rank up system tied to rewards. Some of the worst examples would be PUBG's real world money trading of loot box items or Diablo 3's real world money auction house. In my mind, these kind of systems turn video games meant for enjoyment into some weird NFT mining system where normal players are manually mining them with pen and paper while the bots have built ASIC devices. In cases where the items themselves cannot be sold, you have people selling the whole accounts. There are entire middlemen businesses set up around this stuff. It's crazy but there is your primary driver for incentive.
- alliao 5y agoChina and it's 50k USD cap per capita restriction (probably lower and harder still now) practically become in infinite demand side pressure for these too. They can buy players /cheat to farm, then sell the virtual goods over to those with USD; with healthy discount as profit for the other end. Thereby transfering their asset out of China.