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> On the other hand, it could end up all but killing off PC gaming if it is super successful. Why? I thought PC gaming is about powerful graphics cards you ca

by chx 5y ago

> On the other hand, it could end up all but killing off PC gaming if it is super successful. Why? I thought PC gaming is about powerful graphics cards you can't have pretty much anywhere else.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
There's a relatively niche segment of the PC gaming population that really wants to push the envelope in graphics. I think most PC gamers like gaming on their PC because it is a very open platform that allows them to play games they bought the 90s, all sorts of mods, games from random nobodies on the internet, the latest games, and also emulate a wide variety of game systems and computers.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  Oblivion on Xbox= ffffff that glitch. Delete everything start over from scratch. Oblivion on PC= glitch? Options are- Unofficial patch, console, mod myself Heck I would have deleted the marauder from Doom Eternal if I didn't quit playing video games forever out of frustration. Now I read nonfiction books.
- westpfelia 5y ago
  https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ This is directly from valve. It's probably what Valve looks at when making these decisions. I assume this APU is relatively similar to the 1060 in power? Maybe the 1050. But I haven't seen any benchmarking around the APU.
  - rasz 5y ago
    This APU is slower than base PS4, and ~2x slower than 8 year old GTX 760. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4z4igRnlLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4z4igRnlLQ
    - Strom 5y ago
      The APU is certainly not slower than a PS4, it has Zen 2 cores. The GPU might have fewer flops but it has a much newer architecture, so it could easily be faster. Just comparing flops across different architectures isn't an accurate way of determining GPU gaming performance.
      - rasz 5y ago
        Do you expect this 15W APU to be faster than full TDP Desktop AMD Ryzen 5700G? The "Fastest Integrated Graphics Ever" 13 days ago https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-review https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-review? 5700G reaches GTX760 parity in some games like Witcher3, while in others like Overwatch its medium for APU while dedicated gpu runs same framerate at Ultra.
        Strom 5y ago
        It'll be interesting to see. RDNA2 is definitely a significant upgrade over Vega. Also I would assume most of that desktop TDP goes towards the CPU. The LPDDR5 RAM will also help the GPU in the Steam Deck.
- jakeinspace 5y ago
  Based on my experience, people wanting to play games which are over 20 years old are much more of a niche crowd than those using beefy GPUs. Obviously, few people have RTX 3080/3090 levels of investment, but based on Steam statistics, mid-tier cards from a few years back like the GTX 1060, RTX 2060/2070, and RX 580 are all near the top of the most recent steam surveys.
- friedman23 5y ago
  >I think most PC gamers like gaming on their PC because it is a very open platform that allows them to play games they bought the 90s This is just not true. Most pc gamers are playing free to play competitive multiplayer games. Think league of legends, fortnite, call of duty warzone, and hearthstone. The people playing these games care about framerate for competitive reasons which means they need good gpus.
  - wtetzner 5y ago
    Don't the developers of League of Legends specifically put in a lot of effort to make sure the game runs on older hardware?
- rodgerd 5y ago
  Certainly the Steam surverys support the notion that the people who won't shut up about $1,000 graphics cards are very much a minority in PC gaming. They eat up all the oxygen in the room, but they certainly aren't the actual majority of the group.
throwaway3699 5y ago
It can be about that, but it's also about the low end, the modders and weird hybrid devices like this.
IggleSniggle 5y ago
For me personally, PC gaming is all about being able to play anything from multiplayer FPSs to moddable content to random indie games in my web-browser to emulated games from the early 90s to keyboard-centric roguelikes. Ie, more about having a vast backward-compatible library and the ability to hack on the games for fun than about cutting edge graphics.
ThrowawayR2 5y ago
There are various game genres (flight sims, real-time strategy, simulation games like Factorio and Kerbal Space Program) that just don't fit the console + controller paradigm. Individually, the niches may be small but together they're not insignificant.

by chx 5y ago

> On the other hand, it could end up all but killing off PC gaming if it is super successful. Why? I thought PC gaming is about powerful graphics cards you can't have pretty much anywhere else.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

There's a relatively niche segment of the PC gaming population that really wants to push the envelope in graphics. I think most PC gamers like gaming on their PC because it is a very open platform that allows them to play games they bought the 90s, all sorts of mods, games from random nobodies on the internet, the latest games, and also emulate a wide variety of game systems and computers.

deregulateMed 5y ago
Oblivion on Xbox= ffffff that glitch. Delete everything start over from scratch. Oblivion on PC= glitch? Options are- Unofficial patch, console, mod myself Heck I would have deleted the marauder from Doom Eternal if I didn't quit playing video games forever out of frustration. Now I read nonfiction books.
westpfelia 5y ago
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ This is directly from valve. It's probably what Valve looks at when making these decisions. I assume this APU is relatively similar to the 1060 in power? Maybe the 1050. But I haven't seen any benchmarking around the APU.
- rasz 5y ago
  This APU is slower than base PS4, and ~2x slower than 8 year old GTX 760. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4z4igRnlLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4z4igRnlLQ
  - Strom 5y ago
    The APU is certainly not slower than a PS4, it has Zen 2 cores. The GPU might have fewer flops but it has a much newer architecture, so it could easily be faster. Just comparing flops across different architectures isn't an accurate way of determining GPU gaming performance.
    - rasz 5y ago
      Do you expect this 15W APU to be faster than full TDP Desktop AMD Ryzen 5700G? The "Fastest Integrated Graphics Ever" 13 days ago https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-review https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-review? 5700G reaches GTX760 parity in some games like Witcher3, while in others like Overwatch its medium for APU while dedicated gpu runs same framerate at Ultra.
      - Strom 5y ago
        It'll be interesting to see. RDNA2 is definitely a significant upgrade over Vega. Also I would assume most of that desktop TDP goes towards the CPU. The LPDDR5 RAM will also help the GPU in the Steam Deck.
jakeinspace 5y ago
Based on my experience, people wanting to play games which are over 20 years old are much more of a niche crowd than those using beefy GPUs. Obviously, few people have RTX 3080/3090 levels of investment, but based on Steam statistics, mid-tier cards from a few years back like the GTX 1060, RTX 2060/2070, and RX 580 are all near the top of the most recent steam surveys.
friedman23 5y ago
>I think most PC gamers like gaming on their PC because it is a very open platform that allows them to play games they bought the 90s This is just not true. Most pc gamers are playing free to play competitive multiplayer games. Think league of legends, fortnite, call of duty warzone, and hearthstone. The people playing these games care about framerate for competitive reasons which means they need good gpus.
- wtetzner 5y ago
  Don't the developers of League of Legends specifically put in a lot of effort to make sure the game runs on older hardware?
rodgerd 5y ago
Certainly the Steam surverys support the notion that the people who won't shut up about $1,000 graphics cards are very much a minority in PC gaming. They eat up all the oxygen in the room, but they certainly aren't the actual majority of the group.

throwaway3699 5y ago

It can be about that, but it's also about the low end, the modders and weird hybrid devices like this.

IggleSniggle 5y ago

For me personally, PC gaming is all about being able to play anything from multiplayer FPSs to moddable content to random indie games in my web-browser to emulated games from the early 90s to keyboard-centric roguelikes. Ie, more about having a vast backward-compatible library and the ability to hack on the games for fun than about cutting edge graphics.

ThrowawayR2 5y ago

There are various game genres (flight sims, real-time strategy, simulation games like Factorio and Kerbal Space Program) that just don't fit the console + controller paradigm. Individually, the niches may be small but together they're not insignificant.