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everything you've posted here also applies to sit ins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-in the question of whether these gu

everything you've posted here also applies to sit ins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-in the question of whether these guys should have been arrested is distinct from whether they're justified, which is distinct from whether ddos could ever be considered civil disobedience.

jgfd99 15y ago
I don't think that analogy is fair. It's a denial of service. It's similar to going into an Apple Store or any other store, and blocking customer checkout registers, preventing customers from paying and receiving their goods. But instead of affecting 30 customers for that one store, you're affecting millions of customers.
- throw_away 15y ago
  but that's exactly what the greensboro lunch counter sit-ins were (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins). they went into woolworth's (the apple store of the day) and blocked service all day. I'm not equating the two by any means, but it does seem weird to say that civil disobedience is ok only if it causes just a small localized amount of inconvenience.
  - jgfd99 15y ago
    "civil disobedience is ok only if it causes just a small localized amount of inconvenience" I never stated that. Personally, I believe it's far more efficient and more ethical to use a court system and support your representatives than disrupt a business illegally. We have courts and representatives for grievances.
    - josefresco 15y ago
      Your youth is showing. There's a reason why sit-ins were used in America during the last century to enact change and the courts were part of that problem.
      - Nrsolis 15y ago
        This. Sit-ins were a LAST resort, not the first. There was a long, long history of unequal treatment and oppression by the state before non-violent resistance was used. More importantly, there was a consistent and protracted political movement that was also underway during the period in question. There was a dialog happening and resistance was used to "encourage" one party to stay in that dialog. Even then, it took almost the entire weight of the federal government to ensure the execution of the will of the political majority long AFTER the decision had been made. Honestly, I think that making comparisons to the civil-rights movement in the US is just beyond the pale. Anonymous is a mob; Pure and simple. It's an expression of a small, small minority of people that want to do damage and seek to cloak their actions in civic high-mindedness. I don't believe it for a second. The absolute lack of ANYONE willing to speak for them just proves my point. They embrace mayhem without accountability. Anarchy. Who wants to live in that world? Not I.
  - chopsueyar 15y ago
    You have a compelling argument.
Nrsolis 15y ago
The people who participate in sit-ins are IDENTIFIABLE. It's often the whole point that you show your face and identify yourself as an aggrieved party. Furthermore, lots of those folks get arrested. It's exactly the point that you force the state to take you into custody and deal with you as a means of overwhelming them with otherwise law-abiding citizens. SO...I don't agree with your assertion that it's the same thing. It's a manifestly different thing.

jgfd99 15y ago

I don't think that analogy is fair. It's a denial of service. It's similar to going into an Apple Store or any other store, and blocking customer checkout registers, preventing customers from paying and receiving their goods. But instead of affecting 30 customers for that one store, you're affecting millions of customers.

throw_away 15y ago
but that's exactly what the greensboro lunch counter sit-ins were (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins). they went into woolworth's (the apple store of the day) and blocked service all day. I'm not equating the two by any means, but it does seem weird to say that civil disobedience is ok only if it causes just a small localized amount of inconvenience.
- jgfd99 15y ago
  "civil disobedience is ok only if it causes just a small localized amount of inconvenience" I never stated that. Personally, I believe it's far more efficient and more ethical to use a court system and support your representatives than disrupt a business illegally. We have courts and representatives for grievances.
  - josefresco 15y ago
    Your youth is showing. There's a reason why sit-ins were used in America during the last century to enact change and the courts were part of that problem.
    - Nrsolis 15y ago
      This. Sit-ins were a LAST resort, not the first. There was a long, long history of unequal treatment and oppression by the state before non-violent resistance was used. More importantly, there was a consistent and protracted political movement that was also underway during the period in question. There was a dialog happening and resistance was used to "encourage" one party to stay in that dialog. Even then, it took almost the entire weight of the federal government to ensure the execution of the will of the political majority long AFTER the decision had been made. Honestly, I think that making comparisons to the civil-rights movement in the US is just beyond the pale. Anonymous is a mob; Pure and simple. It's an expression of a small, small minority of people that want to do damage and seek to cloak their actions in civic high-mindedness. I don't believe it for a second. The absolute lack of ANYONE willing to speak for them just proves my point. They embrace mayhem without accountability. Anarchy. Who wants to live in that world? Not I.
- chopsueyar 15y ago
  You have a compelling argument.

Nrsolis 15y ago

The people who participate in sit-ins are IDENTIFIABLE. It's often the whole point that you show your face and identify yourself as an aggrieved party. Furthermore, lots of those folks get arrested. It's exactly the point that you force the state to take you into custody and deal with you as a means of overwhelming them with otherwise law-abiding citizens. SO...I don't agree with your assertion that it's the same thing. It's a manifestly different thing.