5 ms·

I didn't say anything about "our tribe" being right/biased. I said "our tribe" isn't saying this, where "our tribe" is a quote of the original comment. This i

by Chris2048 5y ago

I didn't say anything about "our tribe" being right/biased. I said "our tribe" isn't saying this, where "our tribe" is a quote of the original comment. This is consistent with any of these statements: - our tribe say the opposite - our tribe say something different entirely - our tribe have no consensus on the issue / there is no "our tribe"

rendall 5y ago
Ok. But still, Damore's situation as part of a general human trend, from which the pro-Damore faction is not immune. There are no doubt pro-Damore people who are pro-Damore just because their tribe* is pro-Damore, and not because of the actual content of the memo. This is the identical error as the antis. It's difficult not to make such errors because those of our tribal ancestors who did not immediately and unconditionally support the tribe died. Those who did, lived. If you want to help, pointing out which faction is making the error is not as helpful as insisting on the principled truth no matter which faction is correct. It's a dangerous road, because humans are scary, genocidal apes. * > - our tribe have no consensus on the issue / there is no "our tribe" Agreed. If one can lift one's perceptions out of partisanship, there is only a unified group of people who all (with a few psychopathic exceptions) want the best for themselves, their families, and society as a whole, whose only disagreement is as to method of getting there. And nevertheless, these small disagreements can easily magnify and become physically violent, because humans are scary apes who will elevate tribal affiliation even above literal perception. So, for some people, they absolutely have a tribe, and if you disagree with it, you are them.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  > If you want to help, pointing out which faction is making the error is not as helpful as insisting on the principled truth no matter which faction is correct Which also doesn't work, precisely because of the "tribal error" being made, that removes all nuance of principle. > whose only disagreement is as to method of getting there This isn't really true. as a group of people, our circumstances are different, and hence we are motivated towards different, non-unified goals. It's hard to fight zero-sum instincts.
  - rendall 5y ago
    Well, there have always been those of us who do hold principles above partisan affiliation. Doing so brought the world Enlightenment, Democracy, Emancipation, Suffrage. Give it a go.
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      Affiliation and principle aren't always different. Hitler was defeated by murdering his associates. Taking credit for the fruits of civilization is to whitewash the history of the world.

rendall 5y ago

Ok. But still, Damore's situation as part of a general human trend, from which the pro-Damore faction is not immune. There are no doubt pro-Damore people who are pro-Damore just because their tribe* is pro-Damore, and not because of the actual content of the memo. This is the identical error as the antis. It's difficult not to make such errors because those of our tribal ancestors who did not immediately and unconditionally support the tribe died. Those who did, lived. If you want to help, pointing out which faction is making the error is not as helpful as insisting on the principled truth no matter which faction is correct. It's a dangerous road, because humans are scary, genocidal apes. * > - our tribe have no consensus on the issue / there is no "our tribe" Agreed. If one can lift one's perceptions out of partisanship, there is only a unified group of people who all (with a few psychopathic exceptions) want the best for themselves, their families, and society as a whole, whose only disagreement is as to method of getting there. And nevertheless, these small disagreements can easily magnify and become physically violent, because humans are scary apes who will elevate tribal affiliation even above literal perception. So, for some people, they absolutely have a tribe, and if you disagree with it, you are them.

Chris2048 5y ago
> If you want to help, pointing out which faction is making the error is not as helpful as insisting on the principled truth no matter which faction is correct Which also doesn't work, precisely because of the "tribal error" being made, that removes all nuance of principle. > whose only disagreement is as to method of getting there This isn't really true. as a group of people, our circumstances are different, and hence we are motivated towards different, non-unified goals. It's hard to fight zero-sum instincts.
- rendall 5y ago
  Well, there have always been those of us who do hold principles above partisan affiliation. Doing so brought the world Enlightenment, Democracy, Emancipation, Suffrage. Give it a go.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    Affiliation and principle aren't always different. Hitler was defeated by murdering his associates. Taking credit for the fruits of civilization is to whitewash the history of the world.