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They are not rare now - and they have always happened. There is a huge amount of gang-warfare in the UK using guns and knives (just look at London, Birmingham a

They are not rare now - and they have always happened. There is a huge amount of gang-warfare in the UK using guns and knives (just look at London, Birmingham and Manchester) and it spills over to bystanders. And maybe look up "county lines", which is corrupting children, and spreading the drug trade, and violence, to even small towns. I am not against the use of drugs, and have used some at one point or another myself. But it is delusional to think that so long as drug use is criminalised, criminal gangs will not use extreme violence.

foldr 5y ago
Between March 2018 and March 2019, there were 32 gun homicides in the whole of the UK (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2019 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeand...). This is not consistent with the claim that drive-by shootings are a commonplace event. For comparison, there were, for example, 326 gun homicides in NYC alone in 2019 (https://efsgv.org/state/new-york/#:~:text=More%20than%20800%20New%20Yorkers,deaths%20and%20homicides%20were%2041%25 https://efsgv.org/state/new-york/#:~:text=More%20than%20800%...)
- zabzonk 5y ago
  But of course, 32 lives are insignificant. And you haven't talked about knife murders, or other violence, such as arson. But, what the hell, you have made your point - it doesn't matter about people getting killed, so long as the numbers are what you, in your wisdom, consider "low". Also, this is 2021.
  - foldr 5y ago
    I was just addressing the claim that drive by shootings are something that happen with a significant frequency in the UK. They really aren't, as is obvious from the gun homicide stats. The UK has one of the lowest rates of gun homicide in the world, so there is no reason to put 'low' in scare quotes in this context. I'm not sure how representative pandemic stats would be, so it made sense to look at 2019. But I don't think you can seriously claim that drive by shootings have massively increased during the pandemic. Or at least, if you do claim this, it would be good to see a source.
  - smcl 5y ago
    It's 32 more than I would like for sure. But I don't think it's fair to talk about it like this is an everyday thing in the UK, particularly drive-by shootings which was the original point of contention. I do agree with you on this part of your original reply, though: > But it is delusional to think that so long as drug use is criminalised, criminal gangs will not use extreme violence. It's definitely the case that criminalization of drug use is one of the root causes of a lot of violent crime in the UK. I imagine we'd have other social issues to contend with if we followed the path of making many drugs legal, but we'd certainly have less crime related to their trafficking and distribution.
  - zepto 5y ago
    > They are not rare now Bollocks. > 32 lives are insignificant Nobody is saying this, anywhere. More importantly, how many of those were innocent bystanders? The point is not that people’s lives don’t matter, the point is that being caught in a drive by shooting is an absurd thing to be afraid of. You are more likely to get hit by lightening, or slip and hit your head in the shower.

foldr 5y ago

Between March 2018 and March 2019, there were 32 gun homicides in the whole of the UK (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2019 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeand...). This is not consistent with the claim that drive-by shootings are a commonplace event. For comparison, there were, for example, 326 gun homicides in NYC alone in 2019 (https://efsgv.org/state/new-york/#:~:text=More%20than%20800%20New%20Yorkers,deaths%20and%20homicides%20were%2041%25 https://efsgv.org/state/new-york/#:~:text=More%20than%20800%...)

zabzonk 5y ago
But of course, 32 lives are insignificant. And you haven't talked about knife murders, or other violence, such as arson. But, what the hell, you have made your point - it doesn't matter about people getting killed, so long as the numbers are what you, in your wisdom, consider "low". Also, this is 2021.
- foldr 5y ago
  I was just addressing the claim that drive by shootings are something that happen with a significant frequency in the UK. They really aren't, as is obvious from the gun homicide stats. The UK has one of the lowest rates of gun homicide in the world, so there is no reason to put 'low' in scare quotes in this context. I'm not sure how representative pandemic stats would be, so it made sense to look at 2019. But I don't think you can seriously claim that drive by shootings have massively increased during the pandemic. Or at least, if you do claim this, it would be good to see a source.
- smcl 5y ago
  It's 32 more than I would like for sure. But I don't think it's fair to talk about it like this is an everyday thing in the UK, particularly drive-by shootings which was the original point of contention. I do agree with you on this part of your original reply, though: > But it is delusional to think that so long as drug use is criminalised, criminal gangs will not use extreme violence. It's definitely the case that criminalization of drug use is one of the root causes of a lot of violent crime in the UK. I imagine we'd have other social issues to contend with if we followed the path of making many drugs legal, but we'd certainly have less crime related to their trafficking and distribution.
- zepto 5y ago
  > They are not rare now Bollocks. > 32 lives are insignificant Nobody is saying this, anywhere. More importantly, how many of those were innocent bystanders? The point is not that people’s lives don’t matter, the point is that being caught in a drive by shooting is an absurd thing to be afraid of. You are more likely to get hit by lightening, or slip and hit your head in the shower.