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"You can believe that 99% of crypto is bullshit while also believing that the 1% that isn't will change the world" - Preston Byrne

by ernopp 5y ago

spookthesunset 5y ago
Bitcoin has been around longer than the iPhone. When it started I think we were all still in Windows XP. If Bitcoin hasn’t yet discovered a killer app, when will it? But yeah yeah, it took tens of thousands of years between humans seeing lightning start fires and the charcoal grill… if it took that long, I'm sure it will be tens of thousands of years before Bitcoin finds a use. Better keep buying and holding!
- carlosdp 5y ago
  That’s kind of like saying “the Nokia brick phone has been around forever, if it hasn’t discovered a killer app, when will it?” Bitcoin was just the first blockchain to really find adoption, it’s nowhere near where 99% of the innovation in crypto is happening today. Far more interesting projects that are providing actual value today.
- cercatrova 5y ago
  > Bitcoin has been around longer than the iPhone Bitcoin was released in 2009. The iPhone was released in 2007.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    Well, it was pretty early days: Bitcoin was released a few months after the iPhone got an app store, and a few months before the iPhone got copy & paste functionality.
- vmception 5y ago
  Nobody mentioned bitcoin except you So its an unproductive assumption
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  Comparing Bitcoin to the iphone is disingenuous. It's more like a pager. It took over ~50 years to get from the pager to the iphone.
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
I don't understand this quote, as in, I don't understand why it needs to be said. You can apply this quote to almost any concept.
eli 5y ago
Change the world in some as-yet undiscovered way? I have much less than 1% confidence that any of the crypto ideas I've heard so far will change the world.
- imsd 5y ago
  DeFi is groundbreaking. My wife and I paid off our student loan debts with a 0% interest loan and no need to go through a bank. Our position is well over-collateralized and interest generated from other DeFi lending positions will pay off the loan in full. Not to mention, Ethereum as a settlement layer for stablecoins is gaining exponential adoption. There's a non-insignificant chance it disrupts the traditional banking rails (i.e. ACH, wire, SWIFT, etc.).
  - sexbeast420 5y ago
    ...if you paid it off with an over-collateralized loan, then surely you must have already had enough money to pay it beforehand. Also may I ask what DeFi platform facilitates 0% loans? I thought they all had some low interest
    - imsd 5y ago
      I did have sufficient funds but drawing a loan is more capital efficient. I responded to another comment in this post explaining why. Also, this was not my scenario but a common view: it can make sense to draw a loan so that you're not liquidating long-term holdings. Imagine I hold $100k in bitcoin and need to pay off $15k in student debt. If I sell my BTC, I'll incur capital gains tax and also have a smaller long-term holding. Alternatively, I can borrow $15k against the BTC, pay no tax, and keep my BTC position in full. There are various ways to then generate interest on the BTC and pay back the borrowed funds. Some platforms offering 0% loans include Liquity and Alchemix.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      I mean given crypto coins are going to the moon, every payment they make will have a higher USD(T) value than before. Deflationary currency is great for lenders! In fact this “DeFi” thing should have a negative interest rate to compensate for the fact that this borrower will be paying them more and more each payment.
Hokusai 5y ago
> "You can believe that 99% of crypto is bullshit while also believing that the 1% that isn't will change the world" Is this a quote from someone? Because you can believe anything, believes are not a good method to find what is truth. But it is part of the pump and dump strategy, make people believe that something is valuable and them dump on them all your worthless assets.
- ernopp 5y ago
  It's from Preston Byrne (added this in my original comment). The reason I think it's relevant is that posts like Palmer's attack only the "scam side" of crypto (the 99%) without acknowledging the "new paradigm" (1%) side Yes there are scams, yes there are pumps and dumps, yes there are insiders who control too much liquidity. But you also have to do justice to the promise of the tech. It was not previously possible for anyone with an internet connection to take out a loan via a decentralised protocol (MakerDAO), or exchange assets via a decentralised contract (Uniswap), or have a digital proof of authenticity (NFTs). And all of this without middle-men taking fees, opaque leverage throughout the system (see Archegos) and gating access to only certain participants (the richer half of the world who have a bank account). These days I tend to send skeptical folk this writeup on the problems with centralised finance, and associated DeFi solutions: https://john-street-capital.medium.com/fintech-3-0-re-architecting-financial-market-infrastructure-defi-b554c634f261 https://john-street-capital.medium.com/fintech-3-0-re-archit...
  - hanniabu 5y ago
    Looking forward to the responses handwaiving your comment and saying these aren't real use cases, they don't solve anything, you don't need this stuff unless you're doing illegal activity, tradfi is better, only reason they exist is to better enable scams, [insert any other ignorant argument]. It really is hilarious how similar the naysaying here is to the internet/email says.
  - smt88 5y ago
    If you think NFTs are a proof of authenticity, you deeply misunderstand them and/or the relationship between "digital" and "authentic".

"You can believe that 99% of crypto is bullshit while also believing that the 1% that isn't will change the world" - Preston Byrne

by ernopp 5y ago

"You can believe that 99% of crypto is bullshit while also believing that the 1% that isn't will change the world" - Preston Byrne

spookthesunset 5y ago

Bitcoin has been around longer than the iPhone. When it started I think we were all still in Windows XP. If Bitcoin hasn’t yet discovered a killer app, when will it? But yeah yeah, it took tens of thousands of years between humans seeing lightning start fires and the charcoal grill… if it took that long, I'm sure it will be tens of thousands of years before Bitcoin finds a use. Better keep buying and holding!

carlosdp 5y ago
That’s kind of like saying “the Nokia brick phone has been around forever, if it hasn’t discovered a killer app, when will it?” Bitcoin was just the first blockchain to really find adoption, it’s nowhere near where 99% of the innovation in crypto is happening today. Far more interesting projects that are providing actual value today.
cercatrova 5y ago
> Bitcoin has been around longer than the iPhone Bitcoin was released in 2009. The iPhone was released in 2007.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  Well, it was pretty early days: Bitcoin was released a few months after the iPhone got an app store, and a few months before the iPhone got copy & paste functionality.
vmception 5y ago
Nobody mentioned bitcoin except you So its an unproductive assumption
pcthrowaway 5y ago
Comparing Bitcoin to the iphone is disingenuous. It's more like a pager. It took over ~50 years to get from the pager to the iphone.

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

I don't understand this quote, as in, I don't understand why it needs to be said. You can apply this quote to almost any concept.

eli 5y ago

Change the world in some as-yet undiscovered way? I have much less than 1% confidence that any of the crypto ideas I've heard so far will change the world.

imsd 5y ago
DeFi is groundbreaking. My wife and I paid off our student loan debts with a 0% interest loan and no need to go through a bank. Our position is well over-collateralized and interest generated from other DeFi lending positions will pay off the loan in full. Not to mention, Ethereum as a settlement layer for stablecoins is gaining exponential adoption. There's a non-insignificant chance it disrupts the traditional banking rails (i.e. ACH, wire, SWIFT, etc.).
- sexbeast420 5y ago
  ...if you paid it off with an over-collateralized loan, then surely you must have already had enough money to pay it beforehand. Also may I ask what DeFi platform facilitates 0% loans? I thought they all had some low interest
  - imsd 5y ago
    I did have sufficient funds but drawing a loan is more capital efficient. I responded to another comment in this post explaining why. Also, this was not my scenario but a common view: it can make sense to draw a loan so that you're not liquidating long-term holdings. Imagine I hold $100k in bitcoin and need to pay off $15k in student debt. If I sell my BTC, I'll incur capital gains tax and also have a smaller long-term holding. Alternatively, I can borrow $15k against the BTC, pay no tax, and keep my BTC position in full. There are various ways to then generate interest on the BTC and pay back the borrowed funds. Some platforms offering 0% loans include Liquity and Alchemix.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    I mean given crypto coins are going to the moon, every payment they make will have a higher USD(T) value than before. Deflationary currency is great for lenders! In fact this “DeFi” thing should have a negative interest rate to compensate for the fact that this borrower will be paying them more and more each payment.

Hokusai 5y ago

> "You can believe that 99% of crypto is bullshit while also believing that the 1% that isn't will change the world" Is this a quote from someone? Because you can believe anything, believes are not a good method to find what is truth. But it is part of the pump and dump strategy, make people believe that something is valuable and them dump on them all your worthless assets.

ernopp 5y ago
It's from Preston Byrne (added this in my original comment). The reason I think it's relevant is that posts like Palmer's attack only the "scam side" of crypto (the 99%) without acknowledging the "new paradigm" (1%) side Yes there are scams, yes there are pumps and dumps, yes there are insiders who control too much liquidity. But you also have to do justice to the promise of the tech. It was not previously possible for anyone with an internet connection to take out a loan via a decentralised protocol (MakerDAO), or exchange assets via a decentralised contract (Uniswap), or have a digital proof of authenticity (NFTs). And all of this without middle-men taking fees, opaque leverage throughout the system (see Archegos) and gating access to only certain participants (the richer half of the world who have a bank account). These days I tend to send skeptical folk this writeup on the problems with centralised finance, and associated DeFi solutions: https://john-street-capital.medium.com/fintech-3-0-re-architecting-financial-market-infrastructure-defi-b554c634f261 https://john-street-capital.medium.com/fintech-3-0-re-archit...
- hanniabu 5y ago
  Looking forward to the responses handwaiving your comment and saying these aren't real use cases, they don't solve anything, you don't need this stuff unless you're doing illegal activity, tradfi is better, only reason they exist is to better enable scams, [insert any other ignorant argument]. It really is hilarious how similar the naysaying here is to the internet/email says.
- smt88 5y ago
  If you think NFTs are a proof of authenticity, you deeply misunderstand them and/or the relationship between "digital" and "authentic".