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$30k isn't cheap imo, the average person would need to take out a loan to go buy an EV. Outside of big cities infrastructure doesn't exist. Also hauling stuff

$30k isn't cheap imo, the average person would need to take out a loan to go buy an EV. Outside of big cities infrastructure doesn't exist. Also hauling stuff in an EV, which is where most of the emissions are, isn't even close to feasible yet. >they’re much simpler to own and maintain Maintain maybe... own not really https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/ https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs... Personally, I have zero desire to sell my gas vehicle which will be perfectly fine for the next 5 years to drop 30k on an EV that won't be able to do as much.

ashtonkem 5y ago
> $30k isn't cheap imo, the average person would need to take out a loan to go buy an EV. $30K is cheaper than the average new car being sold right now by quite a bit, and most consumers get a loan to buy those. It seems more than a little bit strange to complain about a $30K EV being expensive when the average new car buyer is taking out a $40K loan for a gasoline car. > Outside of big cities infrastructure doesn't exist. Outside the big cities everyone has a garage. People also regularly overestimate how much they drive. The average American drives about 30 miles a day, you need to be in the top 1-2% of daily drivers[0] for range to be an issue, especially if you can charge at work. > Also hauling stuff in an EV, which is where most of the emissions are, isn't even close to feasible yet. Bulk freight by road is a stupid way to organize a society. Don't make semi-trucks green, use trains. They're far more efficient, have cheaper and longer lasting infrastructure, and are trivial electrify. Semi truck transit represents a massive handout to the semi truck industry in the form of unpaid road maintenance[1], we should stop that. For smaller inner-city transit, we're getting very close. EV pickup trucks are already coming out, I would expect cargo vans to show up soon. > Maintain maybe... own not really https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs... I said that it was simpler to maintain and you replied with a link about it whether or not it is cheaper. Those are different words that mean different things. Yes, EVs are not yet universally cheaper than ICE cars for all use patterns, but that appears to be almost entirely a factor of the purchase price, which is dropping year over year. EVs are lower maintenance (the link you provided backs this up), and cheaper to operate per mile than gasoline cars (your link also shows this). Given how quickly EVs have dropped in up front purchase price, I think we're really close to EVs being a no-brainer decision for most consumers. > Personally, I have zero desire to sell my gas vehicle which will be perfectly fine for the next 5 years to drop 30k on an EV that won't be able to do as much. I hope gasoline gets expensive enough and EVs get cheap enough to change your mind. 0 - https://www.solarjourneyusa.com/EVdistanceAnalysis.php https://www.solarjourneyusa.com/EVdistanceAnalysis.php 1 - Estimates range from 60 to 120 billion dollars per year. This includes congestion, accidents, and most importantly road damage. The wear that a vehicle causes to a road is proportional to the per-axle weight raised to the fourth power, which means that virtually all damage to public roads are caused by semi trucks and semi trucks alone.
thinkcontext 5y ago
> $30k isn't cheap imo Many non-treehugger analysts are projecting upfront price parity is expected by ~2025 without subsidy. Coupled with lower fuel and maintenance costs the adoption curve will really take off at that point. Will they be for everyone at that point? No. By 2035? Seems likely they will be for the vast majority of people, my guess is there will need to be some option for plugin hybrids for some.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  If they can create an SUV that can go off-road like my xterra can and can go the same distance hauling a decent weight I'll be interested. Until then I'll pass. I bike to work so I don't need a small commuter vehicle.
zip1234 5y ago
At least in the US, average sale price of a new car is $40k.
1337turtle 5y ago
You can get a used Nissan Leaf for about 8k right now. It's just the matter of time before some of the higher range cars are old enough to be cheap on the used car market.
- chosenbreed37 5y ago
  Wow! That's a great price. Where can I get it at that price? The car looks okay but I can think of many others that I would rather own. The more "desirable" EVs seem sell at much higher price bracket as compared to their fossil fuel counterparts...
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  What year? How much are the batteries depleted on a used EV?
dml2135 5y ago
Big cities may have more public charging stations, but I'd say they are possibly the least suited to EV ownership because if you live in an apartment and park on the street, you can't charge your car at home.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  That's true and I didn't even consider that. I was recently in the UK and actually the uber driver said the same thing. Most of them don't have driveway or garages so where are they going to park and charge their vehicles? This is pretty much the same situation in the rest of Europe as well.

ashtonkem 5y ago

> $30k isn't cheap imo, the average person would need to take out a loan to go buy an EV. $30K is cheaper than the average new car being sold right now by quite a bit, and most consumers get a loan to buy those. It seems more than a little bit strange to complain about a $30K EV being expensive when the average new car buyer is taking out a $40K loan for a gasoline car. > Outside of big cities infrastructure doesn't exist. Outside the big cities everyone has a garage. People also regularly overestimate how much they drive. The average American drives about 30 miles a day, you need to be in the top 1-2% of daily drivers[0] for range to be an issue, especially if you can charge at work. > Also hauling stuff in an EV, which is where most of the emissions are, isn't even close to feasible yet. Bulk freight by road is a stupid way to organize a society. Don't make semi-trucks green, use trains. They're far more efficient, have cheaper and longer lasting infrastructure, and are trivial electrify. Semi truck transit represents a massive handout to the semi truck industry in the form of unpaid road maintenance[1], we should stop that. For smaller inner-city transit, we're getting very close. EV pickup trucks are already coming out, I would expect cargo vans to show up soon. > Maintain maybe... own not really https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs... I said that it was simpler to maintain and you replied with a link about it whether or not it is cheaper. Those are different words that mean different things. Yes, EVs are not yet universally cheaper than ICE cars for all use patterns, but that appears to be almost entirely a factor of the purchase price, which is dropping year over year. EVs are lower maintenance (the link you provided backs this up), and cheaper to operate per mile than gasoline cars (your link also shows this). Given how quickly EVs have dropped in up front purchase price, I think we're really close to EVs being a no-brainer decision for most consumers. > Personally, I have zero desire to sell my gas vehicle which will be perfectly fine for the next 5 years to drop 30k on an EV that won't be able to do as much. I hope gasoline gets expensive enough and EVs get cheap enough to change your mind. 0 - https://www.solarjourneyusa.com/EVdistanceAnalysis.php https://www.solarjourneyusa.com/EVdistanceAnalysis.php 1 - Estimates range from 60 to 120 billion dollars per year. This includes congestion, accidents, and most importantly road damage. The wear that a vehicle causes to a road is proportional to the per-axle weight raised to the fourth power, which means that virtually all damage to public roads are caused by semi trucks and semi trucks alone.

thinkcontext 5y ago

> $30k isn't cheap imo Many non-treehugger analysts are projecting upfront price parity is expected by ~2025 without subsidy. Coupled with lower fuel and maintenance costs the adoption curve will really take off at that point. Will they be for everyone at that point? No. By 2035? Seems likely they will be for the vast majority of people, my guess is there will need to be some option for plugin hybrids for some.

CountDrewku 5y ago
If they can create an SUV that can go off-road like my xterra can and can go the same distance hauling a decent weight I'll be interested. Until then I'll pass. I bike to work so I don't need a small commuter vehicle.

zip1234 5y ago

At least in the US, average sale price of a new car is $40k.

1337turtle 5y ago

You can get a used Nissan Leaf for about 8k right now. It's just the matter of time before some of the higher range cars are old enough to be cheap on the used car market.

chosenbreed37 5y ago
Wow! That's a great price. Where can I get it at that price? The car looks okay but I can think of many others that I would rather own. The more "desirable" EVs seem sell at much higher price bracket as compared to their fossil fuel counterparts...
CountDrewku 5y ago
What year? How much are the batteries depleted on a used EV?

dml2135 5y ago

Big cities may have more public charging stations, but I'd say they are possibly the least suited to EV ownership because if you live in an apartment and park on the street, you can't charge your car at home.

CountDrewku 5y ago
That's true and I didn't even consider that. I was recently in the UK and actually the uber driver said the same thing. Most of them don't have driveway or garages so where are they going to park and charge their vehicles? This is pretty much the same situation in the rest of Europe as well.