5 ms·

This is a national tragedy for the Netherlands and hopefully a much-needed wake up call to the growing similarity between that country and a genuine narco state

by jb1991 5y ago

This is a national tragedy for the Netherlands and hopefully a much-needed wake up call to the growing similarity between that country and a genuine narco state. Organized crime is completely out of control in the Netherlands. On a margin that far surpasses almost all other countries in the west.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
stiller 5y ago
According to the World Bank, The Netherlands are the 23rd country in the world with the lowest organized crime: https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h3031de56?indicator=678&viz=choropleth&years=2017&compareBy=region https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h3031de56?indicat... They are tied with Switzerland with the 27th lowest homicide rate in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Fair enough, but that's also a function of the fact that NL is a huge transshipment point and the gangs here try very hard to lay low to avoid attracting attention to their activities. Meanwhile, a dutch fruitcompany (https://www.bd.nl/bommelerwaard/fruithandel-de-groot-doelwit-van-criminelen-na-onderschepping-400-kilo-coke-afpersers-dreigden-met-liquidatie~a4e008e8/ https://www.bd.nl/bommelerwaard/fruithandel-de-groot-doelwit...) and its employees are attacked regularly because a load of drugs was caught in transit.
- zqna 5y ago
  I'm afraid there is a tendency to underreport crime in Netherlands. Mainly because the police and legal system seem not to be very effective. So, the statistics can be misleading.
jld89 5y ago
> On a margin that far surpasses almost all other countries in the west. Which developed country doesn't it surpass? From what I've seen the Netherlands is well on the road to becoming today's Mexico.
- the-dude 5y ago
  Mexicans are being flown in to operate meth labs and coke launderies in the countryside.
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    How much do you think that liberal immigration and drugs laws are responsible for that? What are the proposed changes to revert this narco-state status?
    - the-dude 5y ago
      I don't think the Mexicans apply for citizenship, and are just on a tourist visa.
- bjornsing 5y ago
  Interesting. In Sweden there is a lot of talk now about liberalizing drug laws to fight organized crime (by taking their market away from them), but this hasn’t worked out for the Netherlands?
  - amarant 5y ago
    There is? I mean, I talk about it allot, but I feel like I'm the only one.... Maybe it's a more common line of thinking outside of Stockholm? Or maybe it's just not common in my circuits
    - bjornsing 5y ago
      ”In Sweden” should perhaps have been “in my Twitter feed”. :)
woudsma 5y ago
It's still a bit early to call the Netherlands a narco state, but it's worrying yes. Vice has a good series about this issue[0]. [0] https://video.vice.com/en_uk/video/vice-lean-weed-and-cocaine-netherlands-is-the-narco-state-of-europe/5f0dad3514666b29632f0898 https://video.vice.com/en_uk/video/vice-lean-weed-and-cocain... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50821542 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50821542 (related)
_Microft 5y ago
I thought you would be exaggerating but searching for "Netherlands" and "narco state" revealed a scarily large number of articles, some of which are several years old already. I wonder how I could have missed that. I was already aware that the Netherlands had a drug problem in general, both by smuggling via their huge ports and by cartels producing them locally. I had even submitted a map [0] with locations of amphetamine production sites not long ago and most of them are in the Netherlands but the amount of crime that seems to accompany it is frightening. [0] https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/media-library/map-location-sites-related-amphetamine-production-eu-2015-17_en https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/media-library/map-location-site...
- lwn 5y ago
  Criminalising goods which are in high demand seem to have that effect.
- sime2009 5y ago
  Thanks for the map. That is interesting. > the amount of crime that seems to accompany it is frightening Do you have some kind of source that last statement? Do you mean frightening as in "big" or frightening as in "it scares me"?
- jacquesm 5y ago
  In a word: Rotterdam. We have Mexican cartel bozos operating inside the country in their own labs preparing drugs for further distribution into the european market.
libx 5y ago
And what most people miss is that the biggest crime organization in each country is the State and its agencies.

by jb1991 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

stiller 5y ago

According to the World Bank, The Netherlands are the 23rd country in the world with the lowest organized crime: https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h3031de56?indicator=678&viz=choropleth&years=2017&compareBy=region https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h3031de56?indicat... They are tied with Switzerland with the 27th lowest homicide rate in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

jacquesm 5y ago
Fair enough, but that's also a function of the fact that NL is a huge transshipment point and the gangs here try very hard to lay low to avoid attracting attention to their activities. Meanwhile, a dutch fruitcompany (https://www.bd.nl/bommelerwaard/fruithandel-de-groot-doelwit-van-criminelen-na-onderschepping-400-kilo-coke-afpersers-dreigden-met-liquidatie~a4e008e8/ https://www.bd.nl/bommelerwaard/fruithandel-de-groot-doelwit...) and its employees are attacked regularly because a load of drugs was caught in transit.
zqna 5y ago
I'm afraid there is a tendency to underreport crime in Netherlands. Mainly because the police and legal system seem not to be very effective. So, the statistics can be misleading.

jld89 5y ago

> On a margin that far surpasses almost all other countries in the west. Which developed country doesn't it surpass? From what I've seen the Netherlands is well on the road to becoming today's Mexico.

the-dude 5y ago
Mexicans are being flown in to operate meth labs and coke launderies in the countryside.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  How much do you think that liberal immigration and drugs laws are responsible for that? What are the proposed changes to revert this narco-state status?
  - the-dude 5y ago
    I don't think the Mexicans apply for citizenship, and are just on a tourist visa.
bjornsing 5y ago
Interesting. In Sweden there is a lot of talk now about liberalizing drug laws to fight organized crime (by taking their market away from them), but this hasn’t worked out for the Netherlands?
- amarant 5y ago
  There is? I mean, I talk about it allot, but I feel like I'm the only one.... Maybe it's a more common line of thinking outside of Stockholm? Or maybe it's just not common in my circuits
  - bjornsing 5y ago
    ”In Sweden” should perhaps have been “in my Twitter feed”. :)

woudsma 5y ago

It's still a bit early to call the Netherlands a narco state, but it's worrying yes. Vice has a good series about this issue[0]. [0] https://video.vice.com/en_uk/video/vice-lean-weed-and-cocaine-netherlands-is-the-narco-state-of-europe/5f0dad3514666b29632f0898 https://video.vice.com/en_uk/video/vice-lean-weed-and-cocain... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50821542 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50821542 (related)

_Microft 5y ago

I thought you would be exaggerating but searching for "Netherlands" and "narco state" revealed a scarily large number of articles, some of which are several years old already. I wonder how I could have missed that. I was already aware that the Netherlands had a drug problem in general, both by smuggling via their huge ports and by cartels producing them locally. I had even submitted a map [0] with locations of amphetamine production sites not long ago and most of them are in the Netherlands but the amount of crime that seems to accompany it is frightening. [0] https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/media-library/map-location-sites-related-amphetamine-production-eu-2015-17_en https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/media-library/map-location-site...

lwn 5y ago
Criminalising goods which are in high demand seem to have that effect.
sime2009 5y ago
Thanks for the map. That is interesting. > the amount of crime that seems to accompany it is frightening Do you have some kind of source that last statement? Do you mean frightening as in "big" or frightening as in "it scares me"?
jacquesm 5y ago
In a word: Rotterdam. We have Mexican cartel bozos operating inside the country in their own labs preparing drugs for further distribution into the european market.

libx 5y ago

And what most people miss is that the biggest crime organization in each country is the State and its agencies.