3 ms·

JS is for me clean and comfortable, sometimes more than C# and for some others Python is, and everyone has their own answer to "what makes them so". Everything

JS is for me clean and comfortable, sometimes more than C# and for some others Python is, and everyone has their own answer to "what makes them so". Everything being an object may do the trick for you or not. I don't mind a marketing page (even for a programming language) being opinionated, as long as not borderline delusional.

goatlover 5y ago
Unlike most OOP languages, it's true, and not just marketing, for Smalltalk to make the claim that everything is in an object.
- egeozcan 5y ago
  I was not talking about everything being an object. I was talking about that claim being the key to being nice and comfortable. Many sibling comments, IMHO, miss the point of the parent and focus on the claim about python and js. Python and js could perhaps have been completely object based. It still wouldn't make them comfortable for many.
  - xkriva11 5y ago
    The sentence says that it makes Pharo clean and comfortable to learn. Not that it makes every language clean and comfortable to learn :-)
    - egeozcan 5y ago
      Yes and the comment I replied to vaguely suggested that it didn't make python and js comfortable to learn and everyone focused on the fact that in these languages not everything is an object.
  - goatlover 5y ago
    True, but personally I think JS and Python would have benefitted from being more consistent about being object based. JS in particular, since it's prototypal, but has function constructors and class syntax, along with other things added over time that make the language more complex.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    While Python wasn't born pure object based, it is definetly object based in its current version. Python 3.9.5 (default, May 27 2021, 19:45:35) [GCC 9.3.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> x = 1 >>> type(x) <class 'int'> >>> dir(x) ['__abs__', '__add__', '__and__', '__bool__', '__ceil__', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dir__', '__divmod __', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__float__', '__floor__', '__floordiv__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribut e__', '__getnewargs__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__index__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__int__', '__ invert__', '__le__', '__lshift__', '__lt__', '__mod__', '__mul__', '__ne__', '__neg__', '__new__', '__or__ ', '__pos__', '__pow__', '__radd__', '__rand__', '__rdivmod__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__rfloordiv__', '__rlshift__', '__rmod__', '__rmul__', '__ror__', '__round__', '__rpow__', '__rrshift__' , '__rshift__', '__rsub__', '__rtruediv__', '__rxor__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__sub__', '__subclasshook__', '__truediv__', '__trunc__', '__xor__', 'as_integer_ratio', 'bit_length', 'conjugate', 'denominator', 'from_bytes', 'imag', 'numerator', 'real', 'to_bytes'] >>> >>> y = [2] >>> type(y) <class 'list'> >>> dir(y) ['__add__', '__class__', '__class_getitem__', '__contains__', '__delattr__', '__delitem__', '__dir__', '__ doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__', '__getitem__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__iadd __', '__imul__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__', '__mul__', '_ _ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__reversed__', '__rmul__', '__setattr__', ' __setitem__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__', 'append', 'clear', 'copy', 'count', 'extend', ' index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort'] >>> >>> def sum(a, b): return a + b ... >>> sum <function sum at 0x7f673429d1f0> >>> dir(sum) ['__annotations__', '__call__', '__class__', '__closure__', '__code__', '__defaults__', '__delattr__', '__ dict__', '__dir__', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__get__', '__getattribute__', '__globals __', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__kwdefaults__', '__le__', '__lt__', '__modul e__', '__name__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__qualname__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setat tr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__'] Apparently everyone keeps forgetting that after the new class type declarations were introduced and the primitive types made subclasses of them, everything in Python is an object as well.
    - 5y ago
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Unlike most OOP languages, it's true, and not just marketing, for Smalltalk to make the claim that everything is in an object. Its not uncommon in dynamic OOP (or even object-first multiparadigm languages); it’s true in Python, Ruby, JS, and others.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    For example, in Python, are activation records objects you can manipulate? Seaside uses this in Smalltalk to implement continuations. If not, then not everything is an object in Python.

goatlover 5y ago

Unlike most OOP languages, it's true, and not just marketing, for Smalltalk to make the claim that everything is in an object.

egeozcan 5y ago
I was not talking about everything being an object. I was talking about that claim being the key to being nice and comfortable. Many sibling comments, IMHO, miss the point of the parent and focus on the claim about python and js. Python and js could perhaps have been completely object based. It still wouldn't make them comfortable for many.
- xkriva11 5y ago
  The sentence says that it makes Pharo clean and comfortable to learn. Not that it makes every language clean and comfortable to learn :-)
  - egeozcan 5y ago
    Yes and the comment I replied to vaguely suggested that it didn't make python and js comfortable to learn and everyone focused on the fact that in these languages not everything is an object.
- goatlover 5y ago
  True, but personally I think JS and Python would have benefitted from being more consistent about being object based. JS in particular, since it's prototypal, but has function constructors and class syntax, along with other things added over time that make the language more complex.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  While Python wasn't born pure object based, it is definetly object based in its current version. Python 3.9.5 (default, May 27 2021, 19:45:35) [GCC 9.3.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> x = 1 >>> type(x) <class 'int'> >>> dir(x) ['__abs__', '__add__', '__and__', '__bool__', '__ceil__', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dir__', '__divmod __', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__float__', '__floor__', '__floordiv__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribut e__', '__getnewargs__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__index__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__int__', '__ invert__', '__le__', '__lshift__', '__lt__', '__mod__', '__mul__', '__ne__', '__neg__', '__new__', '__or__ ', '__pos__', '__pow__', '__radd__', '__rand__', '__rdivmod__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__rfloordiv__', '__rlshift__', '__rmod__', '__rmul__', '__ror__', '__round__', '__rpow__', '__rrshift__' , '__rshift__', '__rsub__', '__rtruediv__', '__rxor__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__sub__', '__subclasshook__', '__truediv__', '__trunc__', '__xor__', 'as_integer_ratio', 'bit_length', 'conjugate', 'denominator', 'from_bytes', 'imag', 'numerator', 'real', 'to_bytes'] >>> >>> y = [2] >>> type(y) <class 'list'> >>> dir(y) ['__add__', '__class__', '__class_getitem__', '__contains__', '__delattr__', '__delitem__', '__dir__', '__ doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__', '__getitem__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__iadd __', '__imul__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__', '__mul__', '_ _ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__reversed__', '__rmul__', '__setattr__', ' __setitem__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__', 'append', 'clear', 'copy', 'count', 'extend', ' index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort'] >>> >>> def sum(a, b): return a + b ... >>> sum <function sum at 0x7f673429d1f0> >>> dir(sum) ['__annotations__', '__call__', '__class__', '__closure__', '__code__', '__defaults__', '__delattr__', '__ dict__', '__dir__', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__get__', '__getattribute__', '__globals __', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__kwdefaults__', '__le__', '__lt__', '__modul e__', '__name__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__qualname__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setat tr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__'] Apparently everyone keeps forgetting that after the new class type declarations were introduced and the primitive types made subclasses of them, everything in Python is an object as well.
  - 5y ago
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Unlike most OOP languages, it's true, and not just marketing, for Smalltalk to make the claim that everything is in an object. Its not uncommon in dynamic OOP (or even object-first multiparadigm languages); it’s true in Python, Ruby, JS, and others.
- jhgb 5y ago
  For example, in Python, are activation records objects you can manipulate? Seaside uses this in Smalltalk to implement continuations. If not, then not everything is an object in Python.