5 ms·

That small group of people are responding to demand aren't they?

turbinerneiter 5y ago
Do they run ads?
Valmar 5y ago
The thing is, they're still responsible for cutting down the Amazon. The "responding to demand" is a complete cop-out. Stop blaming the consumer for the actions of the greedy. I wouldn't be surprised if the consumer very often isn't even aware of the sources of the materials for a lot of the stuff they buy. And it doesn't help that the consumer is all too often worried about stuff that immediately affects them, leaving them no time or energy to worry about stuff that's they're not immediately aware of. It's like blaming the consumer for the ridiculous amount of plastic corporations use for packaging when that's all that's available 99% of the time.
- ratww 5y ago
  > It's like blaming the consumer for the ridiculous amount of plastic corporations use for packaging when that's all that's available 99% of the time. Oh, that's a huge pet peeve of mine. In some places I lived it was impossible to buy produce without plastic bags because the stores force you to use their own bags. Also you have to put different vegetables on different bags. Otherwise you can't buy. Sure one can argue that I could just boycott all the supermarkets in my city, but those people forget that I also have to fucking eat.
- danparsonson 5y ago
  I didn't say they're not responsible too; my point is that none of us needs cheap beef or hardwood or gold (do we?) and it's widely known what these companies are doing, so we can't just shrug our shoulders and say "we didn't cut down the forest". Agree about the plastic though, that stuff is almost impossible to avoid.
yodelshady 5y ago
Contract killers are responding to demand, but we don't let them legally practice their trade.
- danparsonson 5y ago
  So people who hire contract killers are not to blame? I don't understand this argument - saying "it's not our fault the cattle/hardwood logging/mining companies cut down the Amazon" is nonsense, that's been widely known about for decades and we (collectively) just bought more and more of this stuff. It's their fault and ours.
  - yodelshady 5y ago
    Blame whoever you like. If we agree an activity is harmful, we usually pass laws to stop people doing it. Other options can be applied, but only really if we don't agree, usually due to personal choice being relevant (some drugs, prostitution, seatbelts and helmets) or non-linear effects in both the utility and externalities (most pollution). Or both (cigarettes, alcohol, sugar).
  - ricardobeat 5y ago
    Public policy is always the greatest factor for change at this scale. It’s extremely unlikely that you’ll effect change by individual action, even if you enlist a church-like following.
    - danparsonson 5y ago
      Sure, and (in countries with functioning democracies) public policy responds to pressure from the public. It doesn't tend to change in the face of public apathy.
      - pessimizer 5y ago
        And in countries with functioning mass media systems, the public responds to pressure from the tv.

Do they run ads?

The thing is, they're still responsible for cutting down the Amazon. The "responding to demand" is a complete cop-out. Stop blaming the consumer for the actions of the greedy. I wouldn't be surprised if the consumer very often isn't even aware of the sources of the materials for a lot of the stuff they buy. And it doesn't help that the consumer is all too often worried about stuff that immediately affects them, leaving them no time or energy to worry about stuff that's they're not immediately aware of. It's like blaming the consumer for the ridiculous amount of plastic corporations use for packaging when that's all that's available 99% of the time.

ratww 5y ago
> It's like blaming the consumer for the ridiculous amount of plastic corporations use for packaging when that's all that's available 99% of the time. Oh, that's a huge pet peeve of mine. In some places I lived it was impossible to buy produce without plastic bags because the stores force you to use their own bags. Also you have to put different vegetables on different bags. Otherwise you can't buy. Sure one can argue that I could just boycott all the supermarkets in my city, but those people forget that I also have to fucking eat.
danparsonson 5y ago
I didn't say they're not responsible too; my point is that none of us needs cheap beef or hardwood or gold (do we?) and it's widely known what these companies are doing, so we can't just shrug our shoulders and say "we didn't cut down the forest". Agree about the plastic though, that stuff is almost impossible to avoid.

yodelshady 5y ago

Contract killers are responding to demand, but we don't let them legally practice their trade.

danparsonson 5y ago
So people who hire contract killers are not to blame? I don't understand this argument - saying "it's not our fault the cattle/hardwood logging/mining companies cut down the Amazon" is nonsense, that's been widely known about for decades and we (collectively) just bought more and more of this stuff. It's their fault and ours.
- yodelshady 5y ago
  Blame whoever you like. If we agree an activity is harmful, we usually pass laws to stop people doing it. Other options can be applied, but only really if we don't agree, usually due to personal choice being relevant (some drugs, prostitution, seatbelts and helmets) or non-linear effects in both the utility and externalities (most pollution). Or both (cigarettes, alcohol, sugar).
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  Public policy is always the greatest factor for change at this scale. It’s extremely unlikely that you’ll effect change by individual action, even if you enlist a church-like following.
  - danparsonson 5y ago
    Sure, and (in countries with functioning democracies) public policy responds to pressure from the public. It doesn't tend to change in the face of public apathy.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      And in countries with functioning mass media systems, the public responds to pressure from the tv.