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Great, Switzerland is about to buy 36 of these and are being hoodwinked into thinking they are getting them at a bargain price. Somehow the F35 went from the mo

Great, Switzerland is about to buy 36 of these and are being hoodwinked into thinking they are getting them at a bargain price. Somehow the F35 went from the most expensive compared to its previous generation competitors to the cheapest. There are accounting shenanigans going on here.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
wil421 5y ago
Do you think military planes or even personal carriers are always at 100%? 90%? 80%? How long do you think it takes to overhaul an one of their engines? It looks like the F-22 had something around 50% mission ready.[1] Not to mention a Hurricane messed their training place up pretty bad (as well as my beach house). A classmate in college was in the Airforce and it took something like 10 hours to software upgrade an F-22 and it was likely to fail the first time. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/air-forces-f-22-raptors-wont-meet-pentagons-80-percent-readiness-goal-67352 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/air-forces-f-22-rapto...
- maxerickson 5y ago
  The F-22 has comical maintenance requirements (they designed for peak performance). Lower maintenance cost was a program goal for the F-35 (within the scope of an advanced fighter anyway).
  - wil421 5y ago
    If you look at the requirements set by the Whitehouse in 2019 it said the goal was 80% for F-22, F-35, F-15, and F-16. I presume the F-35, along with the others, was able to meet it.
    - nix23 5y ago
      It's about the Engine, which is 'normally' the most robust and dependable system in a aircraft.
- aitchnyu 5y ago
  Just remembered a supercar maker also has a retry mechanism in their assembly line for flashing their roms. Shouldnt occupants of such vehicles be afraid of the fickle computers?
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    The main difference between the supercar makers and Toyota is that Toyota has enough scale to justify automating the retries and implement an inventory system that lets them flash the ECUs before they get to the line and then pair the right ECU up with the right car. Bigger automakers don't magically have smarter engineers or access to magical materials and chips (despite what internet comments may lead you to believe). They just have to do some things differently because of the scale they operate at.
nix23 5y ago
Yeah it's great, in the meantime: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/air-force-admits-f-35-fighter-jet-costs-too-much-ncna1259781 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/air-force-admits-f-35-... But hey, it's maybe too expensive for the US but not for Switzerland...because we really need them...for air policing and other hardcore war stuff. Next, we need a Aircraft carrier for the Bodensee, and some virgia-class subs to protect it, and a massive dry-dock so the carrier can turn around. Oh and since this is HN: https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/spy-f35s-send-sensitive-norwegian-military-data-back-to-lockheed-martin-in-the-united-states/news-story/12b4fafce6b579448cc8416518063d1f https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/spy-f35s-...
- sschueller 5y ago
  I also don't get the point of having a stealth aircraft. We are neutral as in this will be used for defense in the most extreme case and that is it. So it will fly in Swiss airspace hiding from Swiss ground troops? If we have enemies on our soil we have bigger problems than a stealth aircraft would solve.
  - pbak 5y ago
    It gets the US to politically leave our banks and other institutions alone for a decade or maybe two.
    - sschueller 5y ago
      That is definitely the case. 6B for that is quite cheap. I mean we give the EU 1B a year...
  - nix23 5y ago
    No stealth at supersonic speed for longer time :) >F-35 jet can only fly at supersonic speeds for short bursts of time before there is a risk of structural damage and loss of stealth capability https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

wil421 5y ago

Do you think military planes or even personal carriers are always at 100%? 90%? 80%? How long do you think it takes to overhaul an one of their engines? It looks like the F-22 had something around 50% mission ready.[1] Not to mention a Hurricane messed their training place up pretty bad (as well as my beach house). A classmate in college was in the Airforce and it took something like 10 hours to software upgrade an F-22 and it was likely to fail the first time. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/air-forces-f-22-raptors-wont-meet-pentagons-80-percent-readiness-goal-67352 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/air-forces-f-22-rapto...

maxerickson 5y ago
The F-22 has comical maintenance requirements (they designed for peak performance). Lower maintenance cost was a program goal for the F-35 (within the scope of an advanced fighter anyway).
- wil421 5y ago
  If you look at the requirements set by the Whitehouse in 2019 it said the goal was 80% for F-22, F-35, F-15, and F-16. I presume the F-35, along with the others, was able to meet it.
  - nix23 5y ago
    It's about the Engine, which is 'normally' the most robust and dependable system in a aircraft.
aitchnyu 5y ago
Just remembered a supercar maker also has a retry mechanism in their assembly line for flashing their roms. Shouldnt occupants of such vehicles be afraid of the fickle computers?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  The main difference between the supercar makers and Toyota is that Toyota has enough scale to justify automating the retries and implement an inventory system that lets them flash the ECUs before they get to the line and then pair the right ECU up with the right car. Bigger automakers don't magically have smarter engineers or access to magical materials and chips (despite what internet comments may lead you to believe). They just have to do some things differently because of the scale they operate at.

nix23 5y ago

Yeah it's great, in the meantime: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/air-force-admits-f-35-fighter-jet-costs-too-much-ncna1259781 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/air-force-admits-f-35-... But hey, it's maybe too expensive for the US but not for Switzerland...because we really need them...for air policing and other hardcore war stuff. Next, we need a Aircraft carrier for the Bodensee, and some virgia-class subs to protect it, and a massive dry-dock so the carrier can turn around. Oh and since this is HN: https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/spy-f35s-send-sensitive-norwegian-military-data-back-to-lockheed-martin-in-the-united-states/news-story/12b4fafce6b579448cc8416518063d1f https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/spy-f35s-...

sschueller 5y ago
I also don't get the point of having a stealth aircraft. We are neutral as in this will be used for defense in the most extreme case and that is it. So it will fly in Swiss airspace hiding from Swiss ground troops? If we have enemies on our soil we have bigger problems than a stealth aircraft would solve.
- pbak 5y ago
  It gets the US to politically leave our banks and other institutions alone for a decade or maybe two.
  - sschueller 5y ago
    That is definitely the case. 6B for that is quite cheap. I mean we give the EU 1B a year...
- nix23 5y ago
  No stealth at supersonic speed for longer time :) >F-35 jet can only fly at supersonic speeds for short bursts of time before there is a risk of structural damage and loss of stealth capability https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds...