3 ms·

What is the solution?

by douglaswlance 5y ago

jfengel 5y ago
The solution is a good set of standardized libraries that do the job well enough, and are either delivered as part of the environment or downloaded as a single unit. Then everybody can learn use the one good thing instead of hundreds of redundant, overlapping things. That runs counter to the usual JS ecosystem philosophy of delivering almost nothing and letting everybody make up their own. That's a fun environment for hobbyists exploring and cobbling things together, and a pain in the butt for professionals trying to get work done. It would be a huge amount of effort and everybody would hate the result, so I don't see anybody rushing out to do it. Instead, we get this: a framework that installs a large subset of the entire NPM database every time you start clean. As a framework it mostly hides that ugliness, unless you look at the install process and ask "Why is it so noisy?"
- Brian_K_White 5y ago
  I would say the solution is culture. All individual developers should recognize and avoid things that lead to this state. All or at least most should have a common sense of what is good and what is bad, what is attractive and elegant, what smells. That is not something you can dictate. It has to be something the majority simply recognizes and agrees about, so that they create less of the bad things, and every new developer absorbs the same sense from their childhood googling, the examples set by indisputably valued projects, and school & co-workers. Right now some of the most valued projects set some of the worst examples. It has to be cool and admirable to be efficient and robust, and right now it's not. There is just no way I see to bring this about. You can only do your own tiny part and wish for the rest of the world to improve. Unless you run google or other huge body of coders, you can't change the entire culture. It just changes over decades however it will.

3 ms·

What is the solution?

by douglaswlance 5y ago

What is the solution?

jfengel 5y ago
The solution is a good set of standardized libraries that do the job well enough, and are either delivered as part of the environment or downloaded as a single unit. Then everybody can learn use the one good thing instead of hundreds of redundant, overlapping things. That runs counter to the usual JS ecosystem philosophy of delivering almost nothing and letting everybody make up their own. That's a fun environment for hobbyists exploring and cobbling things together, and a pain in the butt for professionals trying to get work done. It would be a huge amount of effort and everybody would hate the result, so I don't see anybody rushing out to do it. Instead, we get this: a framework that installs a large subset of the entire NPM database every time you start clean. As a framework it mostly hides that ugliness, unless you look at the install process and ask "Why is it so noisy?"
- Brian_K_White 5y ago
  I would say the solution is culture. All individual developers should recognize and avoid things that lead to this state. All or at least most should have a common sense of what is good and what is bad, what is attractive and elegant, what smells. That is not something you can dictate. It has to be something the majority simply recognizes and agrees about, so that they create less of the bad things, and every new developer absorbs the same sense from their childhood googling, the examples set by indisputably valued projects, and school & co-workers. Right now some of the most valued projects set some of the worst examples. It has to be cool and admirable to be efficient and robust, and right now it's not. There is just no way I see to bring this about. You can only do your own tiny part and wish for the rest of the world to improve. Unless you run google or other huge body of coders, you can't change the entire culture. It just changes over decades however it will.