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How about: pip install mypackage No? it's too 2010? I've been a developer for some time now. All I know is a lot of developers love unnecessary complexit

How about: pip install mypackage No? it's too 2010? I've been a developer for some time now. All I know is a lot of developers love unnecessary complexity. It's even more true in the JS world to be honest. Javascript modules were supposed to make everything easier yet some people still manage to write insane boilerplates and tools on top of that and bring back complexity where it is not needed.

ivanbakel 5y ago
>No? it's too 2010? The issue with blind use of pip is that it will inevitably break something in your system when a dependency upgrades too much. Hence virtualenv, and later pipenv. And setting up a Python project is more than just dependency management. Do you want an egg/wheel/etc? Do you use setup.py, or is it deprecated? Speaking from experience, the docs for various Python tools simply don't agree on these things, and it's very hard to set up a project "correctly" without someone helping you.
TechBro8615 5y ago
Do this on a brand new MacBook (or for a bigger challenge, try it on a MacBook that already has a bunch of Python development tools installed). Count how many Google searches you need to make before you have a reproducible and isolated development environment you can share with a junior teammate.
- mlnj 5y ago
  As someone who is fairly new to Python and have lost hundreds of hours on different project in this exact same situation. I've found Dockerized development containers (VS Code Remote Containers) to be a very good solution. Nothing leaks out. Everything is reproducible. But then again I do only web stuff.
  - Brian_K_White 5y ago
    Needing a container (outside of a system publishing reference builds) is evidense of a problem. The fact that a container is easy today just enables and hides the fact that it's a bit ridiculous to need one for half of the things we now use them for. Same for snap, flatpack, appimage, etc. Rather than have a handle on my surface and interface with the os, I'll just bundle an os with my calculator app. All because they're using a newer version of some library that maybe has an extra param on one function to automatically zero-pad or something. And "they" isn't necessarily the developer of the calculator app but could be the developers of any of the hundreds of dependencies. We all know all the excuses how we got here. We all know how each individual step along the way has it's excuse. Yet, it's not a great place we got to.
- gtf21 5y ago
  Every time we have to have someone fix one of our relatively few python projects I rue the day I wrote them in python -- it often takes hours just to get it so the code runs on their machine.

ivanbakel 5y ago

>No? it's too 2010? The issue with blind use of pip is that it will inevitably break something in your system when a dependency upgrades too much. Hence virtualenv, and later pipenv. And setting up a Python project is more than just dependency management. Do you want an egg/wheel/etc? Do you use setup.py, or is it deprecated? Speaking from experience, the docs for various Python tools simply don't agree on these things, and it's very hard to set up a project "correctly" without someone helping you.

TechBro8615 5y ago

Do this on a brand new MacBook (or for a bigger challenge, try it on a MacBook that already has a bunch of Python development tools installed). Count how many Google searches you need to make before you have a reproducible and isolated development environment you can share with a junior teammate.

mlnj 5y ago
As someone who is fairly new to Python and have lost hundreds of hours on different project in this exact same situation. I've found Dockerized development containers (VS Code Remote Containers) to be a very good solution. Nothing leaks out. Everything is reproducible. But then again I do only web stuff.
- Brian_K_White 5y ago
  Needing a container (outside of a system publishing reference builds) is evidense of a problem. The fact that a container is easy today just enables and hides the fact that it's a bit ridiculous to need one for half of the things we now use them for. Same for snap, flatpack, appimage, etc. Rather than have a handle on my surface and interface with the os, I'll just bundle an os with my calculator app. All because they're using a newer version of some library that maybe has an extra param on one function to automatically zero-pad or something. And "they" isn't necessarily the developer of the calculator app but could be the developers of any of the hundreds of dependencies. We all know all the excuses how we got here. We all know how each individual step along the way has it's excuse. Yet, it's not a great place we got to.
gtf21 5y ago
Every time we have to have someone fix one of our relatively few python projects I rue the day I wrote them in python -- it often takes hours just to get it so the code runs on their machine.