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While I don't disagree that Twitter has plenty of work to do, I think if you stack YouTube up against Twitter, it's pretty clear that the former has done more t

While I don't disagree that Twitter has plenty of work to do, I think if you stack YouTube up against Twitter, it's pretty clear that the former has done more to drag people down the rabbit hole. Does Twitter help keep them there once they've gone down? Sure, yeah it does. Should Twitter have dealt with this all better in 2015-2017? Of course, yes. But still, it seems to me that YouTube (and, while we're at it, Facebook) has done far more damage to the information zeitgeist.

laputan_machine 5y ago
I can't disagree more with this sentiment, YouTube has been invaluable for me looking up tutorials of anything that I want to know. My experience of Twitter is that it's a hate-filled cesspit, where the loudest get heard the most, and there is no room for debate (given the character limit). I've used YouTube to learn how to build a bike from scratch, how to fit tiles, plumbing repairs, how to make 3d games engines, as well as the plethora of maths and science / general interest channels (Veritasium, Tom Scott, etc).
- thenberlin 5y ago
  I never said YouTube is all or even mostly bad — I use it every day and find it hugely valuable. That said, is the question “which platform’s features go against my desire for rich, informative, interest-driven content?” or “which platform provides a more potent means of spreading disinformation through a mixture of algorithmic enticement and rich, engaging, interest-driven content?” I ask because it seems like you think we’re talking about question #1 and I’m talking about question #2.
Mentoio 5y ago
I'm not sure if i follow you when you mention YouTube. I thought just yesterday how YouTube changed the world again on making knowledge much more accessable than ever before. I have seen very well done YouTube videos debunking things, explaining things, visual showing things. I asked my mother about cooking and in here time, you needed to go to a cooking class. I have already more diverse cooking experience thanks to getting inspired and learning certain aspects of cooking through youtube. Facebook? just burn that shit.
- mdiesel 5y ago
  Even the most gullible among us don't fall into the conspiracy theory trap by reading 140 characters (I hope). YouTube videos with decent production quality, which these days is accessible to anyone, lend some credibility to the content. Then you get the next recommended video, on the same topic, with some different bits of evidence but the same conclusion and equally well made.
- thenberlin 5y ago
  If you were to replace the paragraph about cooking classes with one that lauded “A better way to understand who’s really in power in this country and the sick things they’re up to” you would have made a comment that is both a) totally believably real in the current climate (and actually exists many times over in variously worded approximations), and b) the perfect example of what I’m talking about.
  - Mentoio 5y ago
    I'm also seeing a lot of good videos explaining political views or debating them. The flat earth movement for example spun up on youtube and is going down again. Which feels to me that there are mechanism in place or persistency on information sharing which of course can go both directions, but its harder to just be in your own bubble. Nonetheless, i did not use a political example because i wanted to make my point on something non controversial and still highly positive. Woodworking, car repair, item testing (the guy who tests 20 brands of oils, blades, tools etc. Im not sure though, completly what your point is though, i hope i understood it correctly.
ralusek 5y ago
I'm sorry, but YouTube is a much less harmful platform than Twitter. YouTube can facilitate multi-hour long discussions and deep dives into issues with nuance. That doesn't mean that all content on there is nuanced, but the ability for it to exist automatically elevates the platform above Twitter...for which the whole problem is clearly a lack of nuance and depth.
- thenberlin 5y ago
  But the issue isn’t “lack of nuance” at all. Do I like that “lack of nuance” myself? No, I look at Twitter maybe once a week, if that. But do cults start simply because there’s a “lack of nuance” in the communication channels they use? Also no. I think it’s important to note that nothing in your comment leads me to believe you’re not a diehard, Qanon-believing, Trump-loving, lizard-people-are-actually-a-thing kinda person…which is kinda my point. YouTube’s strengths are also a significant part of its weakness (and that’s why it has such a massive responsibility).
  - ralusek 5y ago
    > nothing in your comment leads me to believe you’re not a diehard, Qanon-believing, Trump-loving, lizard-people-are-actually-a-thing kinda person…which is kinda my point. And my point is that you're upset that you can't assume everything you'd like to about me from a paragraph that I wrote. Twitter is tribal warfare.

laputan_machine 5y ago

I can't disagree more with this sentiment, YouTube has been invaluable for me looking up tutorials of anything that I want to know. My experience of Twitter is that it's a hate-filled cesspit, where the loudest get heard the most, and there is no room for debate (given the character limit). I've used YouTube to learn how to build a bike from scratch, how to fit tiles, plumbing repairs, how to make 3d games engines, as well as the plethora of maths and science / general interest channels (Veritasium, Tom Scott, etc).

thenberlin 5y ago
I never said YouTube is all or even mostly bad — I use it every day and find it hugely valuable. That said, is the question “which platform’s features go against my desire for rich, informative, interest-driven content?” or “which platform provides a more potent means of spreading disinformation through a mixture of algorithmic enticement and rich, engaging, interest-driven content?” I ask because it seems like you think we’re talking about question #1 and I’m talking about question #2.

Mentoio 5y ago

I'm not sure if i follow you when you mention YouTube. I thought just yesterday how YouTube changed the world again on making knowledge much more accessable than ever before. I have seen very well done YouTube videos debunking things, explaining things, visual showing things. I asked my mother about cooking and in here time, you needed to go to a cooking class. I have already more diverse cooking experience thanks to getting inspired and learning certain aspects of cooking through youtube. Facebook? just burn that shit.

mdiesel 5y ago
Even the most gullible among us don't fall into the conspiracy theory trap by reading 140 characters (I hope). YouTube videos with decent production quality, which these days is accessible to anyone, lend some credibility to the content. Then you get the next recommended video, on the same topic, with some different bits of evidence but the same conclusion and equally well made.
thenberlin 5y ago
If you were to replace the paragraph about cooking classes with one that lauded “A better way to understand who’s really in power in this country and the sick things they’re up to” you would have made a comment that is both a) totally believably real in the current climate (and actually exists many times over in variously worded approximations), and b) the perfect example of what I’m talking about.
- Mentoio 5y ago
  I'm also seeing a lot of good videos explaining political views or debating them. The flat earth movement for example spun up on youtube and is going down again. Which feels to me that there are mechanism in place or persistency on information sharing which of course can go both directions, but its harder to just be in your own bubble. Nonetheless, i did not use a political example because i wanted to make my point on something non controversial and still highly positive. Woodworking, car repair, item testing (the guy who tests 20 brands of oils, blades, tools etc. Im not sure though, completly what your point is though, i hope i understood it correctly.

ralusek 5y ago

I'm sorry, but YouTube is a much less harmful platform than Twitter. YouTube can facilitate multi-hour long discussions and deep dives into issues with nuance. That doesn't mean that all content on there is nuanced, but the ability for it to exist automatically elevates the platform above Twitter...for which the whole problem is clearly a lack of nuance and depth.

thenberlin 5y ago
But the issue isn’t “lack of nuance” at all. Do I like that “lack of nuance” myself? No, I look at Twitter maybe once a week, if that. But do cults start simply because there’s a “lack of nuance” in the communication channels they use? Also no. I think it’s important to note that nothing in your comment leads me to believe you’re not a diehard, Qanon-believing, Trump-loving, lizard-people-are-actually-a-thing kinda person…which is kinda my point. YouTube’s strengths are also a significant part of its weakness (and that’s why it has such a massive responsibility).
- ralusek 5y ago
  > nothing in your comment leads me to believe you’re not a diehard, Qanon-believing, Trump-loving, lizard-people-are-actually-a-thing kinda person…which is kinda my point. And my point is that you're upset that you can't assume everything you'd like to about me from a paragraph that I wrote. Twitter is tribal warfare.