4 ms·

Quite unsubstantiated opinion piece, but if sticking the diversity/class oppression narrative is what we need to get the zeitgeist to recognize the harmfulness

by leppr 5y ago

Quite unsubstantiated opinion piece, but if sticking the diversity/class oppression narrative is what we need to get the zeitgeist to recognize the harmfulness of centralized surveillance, I'm all for it. Singling-out of smartwatches is a bit moot when smartphones are universally adopted though. Poor or rich, everyone has a telescreen, it's even worse than 1984.

trompetenaccoun 5y ago
These reality-denying identity politics followers are just as dangerous as the corporations pushing surveillance. The author lost me when they stared talking about trans people being more affected by surveillance than others. It would be smart to let them battle it out first, if they oppose it too. Like the US waited for the Soviet Union to get seriously wounded before taking on the Nazis, because both were a threat.
- emptyparadise 5y ago
  Acknowledging the existence of trans people is not identity politics.
  - captainredbeard 5y ago
    Every person who is trans deserves humane treatment. That said, what they are demanding is celebration and equation with “good as normal”. Unfortunately that’s not true, it’s a serious health problem that we should steer folks out of if at all possible.
  - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
    Nice strawman, only problem is that I wrote nothing of the sorts.
  - andrepd 5y ago
    They are not "acknowledging the existence of trans people", they are shoehorning it into every unrelated discussion, in a manner that does both causes a disservice.
- redstone_tech 5y ago
  The irony is that by supporting trans-rights they are actually doing people who identify as trans a disservice. There are a lot of documented problems with hormone blockers being miss-used, horror stories from gender re-assignment surgeries and (miss-)identification of little kids as trans. You support these people by helping them feel comfortable with their own biology, not with butchery! But I digress. We shouldn't let people with these sorts of agendas dominate the discussion on such serious topics, we don't need another stripe on the LGBT flag to signify anti-surveillance. LGBT, trans-activism, feminism, etc. etc. are, and should remain disjoint from the fight against surveillance. If we start mixing in leftist-politics into the discussion we are weakening it by pushing away people who are not left-leaning or not in support of LGBT. By leaving anti-surveillance and pro-privacy activism pure and undiluted from left-right politics, we will have a greater ability to educate the masses.
machinehermiter 5y ago
That is really the shocking thing at this point. 1984 has just been lapped by reality. I think it is already a lost cause. We had the chance a decade ago to collectively show companies doing this is bad business. Instead we collectively did the opposite. You don't get a do over with this. Maybe it is even related to this nonsense statistical thinking that has infected our group mind. Even when it doesn't apply at all, everything is a random draw from the urn. "We just got unlucky on this draw from the urn with surveillance". Maybe next time we will have better luck even though there is no urn, draws or next time.
andrepd 5y ago
The thing is it doesn't have to be this way. Smartphones could be genuinely useful devices (take e photos, communicate, GPS, hobby assistant, listen to music and podcasts) without the surveillance and the stripping of privacy and freedom. Also, re: "class oppression". Like so many things, this is definitely about class. "Surveillance" is only half of "surveillance capitalism" ;)
- leppr 5y ago
  > Like so many things, this is definitely about class. "Surveillance" is only half of "surveillance capitalism" ;) I don't think traditional social class plays much in that particular equation. It's a really small group of people that have the resources and access to use the surveillance data in oppressive ways. Government officials, 9+ figure-company CEOs, poor activitists are all targets. > The thing is it doesn't have to be this way. Agreed, I'm not as pessimistic as others but we have to either solve the funding issue for OSS work, or come up with some other means of establishing trust in proprietary devices and software.

by leppr 5y ago

trompetenaccoun 5y ago

These reality-denying identity politics followers are just as dangerous as the corporations pushing surveillance. The author lost me when they stared talking about trans people being more affected by surveillance than others. It would be smart to let them battle it out first, if they oppose it too. Like the US waited for the Soviet Union to get seriously wounded before taking on the Nazis, because both were a threat.

emptyparadise 5y ago
Acknowledging the existence of trans people is not identity politics.
- captainredbeard 5y ago
  Every person who is trans deserves humane treatment. That said, what they are demanding is celebration and equation with “good as normal”. Unfortunately that’s not true, it’s a serious health problem that we should steer folks out of if at all possible.
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  Nice strawman, only problem is that I wrote nothing of the sorts.
- andrepd 5y ago
  They are not "acknowledging the existence of trans people", they are shoehorning it into every unrelated discussion, in a manner that does both causes a disservice.
redstone_tech 5y ago
The irony is that by supporting trans-rights they are actually doing people who identify as trans a disservice. There are a lot of documented problems with hormone blockers being miss-used, horror stories from gender re-assignment surgeries and (miss-)identification of little kids as trans. You support these people by helping them feel comfortable with their own biology, not with butchery! But I digress. We shouldn't let people with these sorts of agendas dominate the discussion on such serious topics, we don't need another stripe on the LGBT flag to signify anti-surveillance. LGBT, trans-activism, feminism, etc. etc. are, and should remain disjoint from the fight against surveillance. If we start mixing in leftist-politics into the discussion we are weakening it by pushing away people who are not left-leaning or not in support of LGBT. By leaving anti-surveillance and pro-privacy activism pure and undiluted from left-right politics, we will have a greater ability to educate the masses.

machinehermiter 5y ago

That is really the shocking thing at this point. 1984 has just been lapped by reality. I think it is already a lost cause. We had the chance a decade ago to collectively show companies doing this is bad business. Instead we collectively did the opposite. You don't get a do over with this. Maybe it is even related to this nonsense statistical thinking that has infected our group mind. Even when it doesn't apply at all, everything is a random draw from the urn. "We just got unlucky on this draw from the urn with surveillance". Maybe next time we will have better luck even though there is no urn, draws or next time.

andrepd 5y ago

The thing is it doesn't have to be this way. Smartphones could be genuinely useful devices (take e photos, communicate, GPS, hobby assistant, listen to music and podcasts) without the surveillance and the stripping of privacy and freedom. Also, re: "class oppression". Like so many things, this is definitely about class. "Surveillance" is only half of "surveillance capitalism" ;)

leppr 5y ago
> Like so many things, this is definitely about class. "Surveillance" is only half of "surveillance capitalism" ;) I don't think traditional social class plays much in that particular equation. It's a really small group of people that have the resources and access to use the surveillance data in oppressive ways. Government officials, 9+ figure-company CEOs, poor activitists are all targets. > The thing is it doesn't have to be this way. Agreed, I'm not as pessimistic as others but we have to either solve the funding issue for OSS work, or come up with some other means of establishing trust in proprietary devices and software.