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A long time ago, I had a bitter and stupid fight with a (former) friend on Facebook when I inadvertently argued that the US foreign policy record is inconsisten

A long time ago, I had a bitter and stupid fight with a (former) friend on Facebook when I inadvertently argued that the US foreign policy record is inconsistent at best and entirely self-interested at worst. The experience taught me many things - both what Katz found, but also that anonymity is often needed to have honest discussions on history and politics.

nixpulvis 5y ago
> ... but also that anonymity is often needed to have honest discussions on history and politics. I couldn't disagree with this more. Who you are and the life experiences you bring are critical to understanding each other. Faceless comments are often forced to appear dry and pure, when history simply isn't.
- amoorthy 5y ago
  I know what you mean. What I've seen is that many people, myself included, fear retribution for talking about politics - even things we deeply believe to be true. I think HN works reasonably well in that it is pseudoanonymous and there's a standing of sorts from karma points. I think that, plus social norms and moderation, help to have thoughtful and honest engagement moreso than in other venues. I have not seen this to be the case when real identities are used to talk politics but if you've seen so please let me know.
  - nixpulvis 5y ago
    Me and my hommies talk about politics and other deeper shit. That said, I haven't always had friends around, and some friends aren't good at this stuff. At work it's different. People whisper and talk in back channels. People form cliques and bully each other more subtly than grade-school. But, I generally believe work should remain somewhat professional (obviously). It gets hard when your boss starts stalking your Twitter or Facebook or even hobby GitHub projects. Online, it generally feels less like a discussion, and more like spurious reports and one off essays complete with introductions, bodies, and conclusions all packaged into a neat reply. But in either case, it's about finding boundaries with people and pushing them with purpose.
  - nixpulvis 5y ago
    Ohhh, you mean Real Identities like some online concept or virtual idea. Sure, people will naturally become a bit more cautious of what they say when more and more people are watching... Or, they snap drop all care for the reputation and find themselves making friends with flat earthers. Pick your poison. I was thinking about a real person, I can chat with and possibly smack if he's being a bit too fresh (but generally don't need to). IDK, a lot of great conversations are simply with another person.

nixpulvis 5y ago

> ... but also that anonymity is often needed to have honest discussions on history and politics. I couldn't disagree with this more. Who you are and the life experiences you bring are critical to understanding each other. Faceless comments are often forced to appear dry and pure, when history simply isn't.

amoorthy 5y ago
I know what you mean. What I've seen is that many people, myself included, fear retribution for talking about politics - even things we deeply believe to be true. I think HN works reasonably well in that it is pseudoanonymous and there's a standing of sorts from karma points. I think that, plus social norms and moderation, help to have thoughtful and honest engagement moreso than in other venues. I have not seen this to be the case when real identities are used to talk politics but if you've seen so please let me know.
- nixpulvis 5y ago
  Me and my hommies talk about politics and other deeper shit. That said, I haven't always had friends around, and some friends aren't good at this stuff. At work it's different. People whisper and talk in back channels. People form cliques and bully each other more subtly than grade-school. But, I generally believe work should remain somewhat professional (obviously). It gets hard when your boss starts stalking your Twitter or Facebook or even hobby GitHub projects. Online, it generally feels less like a discussion, and more like spurious reports and one off essays complete with introductions, bodies, and conclusions all packaged into a neat reply. But in either case, it's about finding boundaries with people and pushing them with purpose.
- nixpulvis 5y ago
  Ohhh, you mean Real Identities like some online concept or virtual idea. Sure, people will naturally become a bit more cautious of what they say when more and more people are watching... Or, they snap drop all care for the reputation and find themselves making friends with flat earthers. Pick your poison. I was thinking about a real person, I can chat with and possibly smack if he's being a bit too fresh (but generally don't need to). IDK, a lot of great conversations are simply with another person.