4 ms·

> While there are many many factors affecting obesity, I am still convinced that the most significant factor is that people are basically delusional about how m

> While there are many many factors affecting obesity, I am still convinced that the most significant factor is that people are basically delusional about how much they actually need to eat and how much energy is actually in various foods. I could be wrong, but I've seen no rigorously done science that convinces me otherwise yet. Why do you think that people become delusional or have become increasingly delusional in the last 40 to 50 years? I'm pretty convinced that things like adenovirus 36 infection, phthalate exposure (especially in utero and as a young child) are obesogenic. I do think you're right that people are probably eating larger portions than in the 80's and often eating more calories, but I wouldn't be surprised is a large part of the reason why was because of obesogenic compounds and diseases. Another reason I find this easy to believe is research on body weight homeostasis is pretty convincing. The leptin system is pretty strong at getting (some) people to eat less after eating more than usual one day and getting them to eat more after eating less than usual. There is also convincing research on what researchers call the gravitostat which, independent of leptin, alters hunger through weight-dependent signals from osteocytes in the large bones of the body.

JabavuAdams 5y ago
> Why do you think that people become delusional or have become increasingly delusional in the last 40 to 50 years? I don't. I think they didn't have the opportunity to eat so much food because it was more expensive and going out was socially atypical. When my Mom is around, my Dad gains weight, but when she's away, he loses weight. Why? She's not literally force-feeding him, but when she's around there's a fully stocked fridge of delicious treats that he would not normally seek out. He/we just don't have the willpower to fight that. Here is a delicious thing -- don't eat it. So much easier not to have it in the house -- out of sight, out of mind. Same for me with COVID. When I was initially hunkered-down and buying staples I lost weight. Once I relaxed and started going on snack-runs I started gaining weight. It's the (social) environment. Those are personal examples of how the easy availability of food and snacks makes it more likely to overeat. As the culture changes to normalize overeating, people don't realize they're overeating and start to look for reasons why everyone is gaining weight, other than the obvious. Regarding homeostasis -- if portion sizes are increasing, everyone is overeating, and there's a culture of trying to find every factor except overeating, then you don't just eat too much one day, you eat too much every day. A rising tide bloats all floats? I find it really strange that we mostly ignore the advice of people who seem to be able to maintain a lower body weight (eat less, exercise more). Instead we are basically bombarded with complicated information from people who have weight problems. It's like you want to find out how to do car maintenance, but you ignore the people with well-running cars, and instead listen to all the people with terribly-maintained cars. Being overweight doesn't mean you're a bad person, although socially and emotionally the consequences are brutal. Because of these brutal consequences, I think we're biased to find any way at all that being overweight is not due to our own direct actions. Hence the search for all of these super-complicated and subtle higher-order effects. Could be wrong, but this is where I am after decades of watching incredibly irrational behaviour in myself, my family, and my friends. I'm convinced that it would be more helpful to treat this as food addiction, given the incredible mental contortions involved. EDIT> As another example of social factors. I seem to remember it being socially unacceptable to have one's shirt untucked in a non-athletic context in the '80s. I remember when I first started going in to work with shirt untucked. I can hide 20 pounds under there without people considering me fat. But there was a time when if you did up your belt, tucked your shirt in, and had overhang of belly over belt you were considered fat. On the one hand it's great that we're trying to be less brutal to heavier people. In an ideal future, people wouldn't be judged by their appearances at all. But in doing this, I wonder whether we're losing sight of the reality of the causes and effects.
- briefcomment 5y ago
  Since we're giving anecdotal evidence, I know people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, don't exercise, and are thin as a rail.
  - JabavuAdams 5y ago
    This is actually more evidence for my point, if you think about it.
    - briefcomment 5y ago
      I don't think I caught your point then. What exactly are you arguing?

JabavuAdams 5y ago

> Why do you think that people become delusional or have become increasingly delusional in the last 40 to 50 years? I don't. I think they didn't have the opportunity to eat so much food because it was more expensive and going out was socially atypical. When my Mom is around, my Dad gains weight, but when she's away, he loses weight. Why? She's not literally force-feeding him, but when she's around there's a fully stocked fridge of delicious treats that he would not normally seek out. He/we just don't have the willpower to fight that. Here is a delicious thing -- don't eat it. So much easier not to have it in the house -- out of sight, out of mind. Same for me with COVID. When I was initially hunkered-down and buying staples I lost weight. Once I relaxed and started going on snack-runs I started gaining weight. It's the (social) environment. Those are personal examples of how the easy availability of food and snacks makes it more likely to overeat. As the culture changes to normalize overeating, people don't realize they're overeating and start to look for reasons why everyone is gaining weight, other than the obvious. Regarding homeostasis -- if portion sizes are increasing, everyone is overeating, and there's a culture of trying to find every factor except overeating, then you don't just eat too much one day, you eat too much every day. A rising tide bloats all floats? I find it really strange that we mostly ignore the advice of people who seem to be able to maintain a lower body weight (eat less, exercise more). Instead we are basically bombarded with complicated information from people who have weight problems. It's like you want to find out how to do car maintenance, but you ignore the people with well-running cars, and instead listen to all the people with terribly-maintained cars. Being overweight doesn't mean you're a bad person, although socially and emotionally the consequences are brutal. Because of these brutal consequences, I think we're biased to find any way at all that being overweight is not due to our own direct actions. Hence the search for all of these super-complicated and subtle higher-order effects. Could be wrong, but this is where I am after decades of watching incredibly irrational behaviour in myself, my family, and my friends. I'm convinced that it would be more helpful to treat this as food addiction, given the incredible mental contortions involved. EDIT> As another example of social factors. I seem to remember it being socially unacceptable to have one's shirt untucked in a non-athletic context in the '80s. I remember when I first started going in to work with shirt untucked. I can hide 20 pounds under there without people considering me fat. But there was a time when if you did up your belt, tucked your shirt in, and had overhang of belly over belt you were considered fat. On the one hand it's great that we're trying to be less brutal to heavier people. In an ideal future, people wouldn't be judged by their appearances at all. But in doing this, I wonder whether we're losing sight of the reality of the causes and effects.

briefcomment 5y ago
Since we're giving anecdotal evidence, I know people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, don't exercise, and are thin as a rail.
- JabavuAdams 5y ago
  This is actually more evidence for my point, if you think about it.
  - briefcomment 5y ago
    I don't think I caught your point then. What exactly are you arguing?