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> Sounds pretty extreme and absolutist to me. I am giving a social absolute. Your absolute regarded abuse, a crime, and a serious one at that. A statement bein

> Sounds pretty extreme and absolutist to me. I am giving a social absolute. Your absolute regarded abuse, a crime, and a serious one at that. A statement being absolute is only concerning if it's also extreme. Labeling deference to parents as abusive is extreme.

nate_meurer 5y ago
What exactly is a "social absolute"? > Your absolute regarded abuse, a crime, and a serious one at that. No, there is no crime of "abuse" per se. Take, for example, the constant, relentless degrading and insulting language that one of my friends directed at his son since he was a little boy, which destroyed the kid's self esteem and has now undermined his agency as an adult, resulting in depression and addiction. I continually hear this kid calling himself "stupid", and he's genuinely surprised that he can't stop himself from drinking. Now what crime do you propose his father should be charged with? My friend now criticizes his adult son for being weak, saying he has only himself to blame for his struggles. Would you advise his son, and all the others like him, to "defer" to his father? Would you apply to this man all the generalizations you've used in this thread, and accuse him of failing to appreciate how his father "looked after" him? > Labeling deference to parents as abusive is extreme. The parent comment did no such thing. They said that an abusive parent's expectation of deference can itself constitute abusive behavior. This is not surprising to anyone who's been exposed to abusive relationships: it's common, for example, for abusive husbands to demand deference from their wives, in line with traditional (and often religious) mores. Would you agree with this as well? Or is it only parents who you think deserve unconditional fealty?
- iammisc 5y ago
  > What exactly is a "social absolute"? A social absolute is something like 'always be nice to people'. This is different from 'any attempt to be nice to someone is abusive'. one relates to human social interactions. The other relates to what is typically considered a serious crime.
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    So, "social absolute" is a concept that you invented, which allows you to use absolutist language while claiming otherwise. Is that about right? > what is typically considered a serious crime How often do you suppose the emotionally abusive behaviors described in the comment that you orginally objected to rise to the level of criminality? I'll give you a hint if you need it. I notice you didn't answer any of my other questions. Would I be way off-base to assume, therefore, that your sympathies lie with the abusive father I described?

nate_meurer 5y ago

What exactly is a "social absolute"? > Your absolute regarded abuse, a crime, and a serious one at that. No, there is no crime of "abuse" per se. Take, for example, the constant, relentless degrading and insulting language that one of my friends directed at his son since he was a little boy, which destroyed the kid's self esteem and has now undermined his agency as an adult, resulting in depression and addiction. I continually hear this kid calling himself "stupid", and he's genuinely surprised that he can't stop himself from drinking. Now what crime do you propose his father should be charged with? My friend now criticizes his adult son for being weak, saying he has only himself to blame for his struggles. Would you advise his son, and all the others like him, to "defer" to his father? Would you apply to this man all the generalizations you've used in this thread, and accuse him of failing to appreciate how his father "looked after" him? > Labeling deference to parents as abusive is extreme. The parent comment did no such thing. They said that an abusive parent's expectation of deference can itself constitute abusive behavior. This is not surprising to anyone who's been exposed to abusive relationships: it's common, for example, for abusive husbands to demand deference from their wives, in line with traditional (and often religious) mores. Would you agree with this as well? Or is it only parents who you think deserve unconditional fealty?

iammisc 5y ago
> What exactly is a "social absolute"? A social absolute is something like 'always be nice to people'. This is different from 'any attempt to be nice to someone is abusive'. one relates to human social interactions. The other relates to what is typically considered a serious crime.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  So, "social absolute" is a concept that you invented, which allows you to use absolutist language while claiming otherwise. Is that about right? > what is typically considered a serious crime How often do you suppose the emotionally abusive behaviors described in the comment that you orginally objected to rise to the level of criminality? I'll give you a hint if you need it. I notice you didn't answer any of my other questions. Would I be way off-base to assume, therefore, that your sympathies lie with the abusive father I described?