5 ms·

Wow Tehran is full of beautiful things that even someone from Iran like me doesn't know

jacquesm 5y ago
I've spent half a day looking through pictures of Iran from before the revolution, it was - and in many ways probably still is - an absolutely amazing country. Sooner or later the mullahs will be given their walking papers and hopefully the country can then recover some of its former splendor.
- anticodon 5y ago
  Yeah, I imagine it: - It would be bombed and looted by foreign army ("In the name of democracy!") - Hundreds of thousands of people will die from bombs, same amount from hunger and civil unrest caused by destruction of the infrastructure and government system (police, hospitals, etc.) - Foreign companies will take control of Iran's oil (the main reason why Iran is considered "hostile country" now is that it controls its natural resources), so that profits from selling the oil flow to other countries (exactly the same happened recently in Libya and Syria) It would become unsafe to visit, and most cities would be in ruins. Crime rates would go through the roof.
- brudgers 5y ago
  Europeans have been anti-Persian since before Socrates was a hoplite. It would be better if fifteen hundred years of Islamophobia was disinfected from Europe. It's a double standard where nobody sees a problem with England even though there's a state religion and the religious head and government head are the same person...and unlike Iran, those roles are hereditary. Iran today looks like what throwing off the yoke of foreign influence looks like. So far it has only been going on half as long as the Guerra de los Ochenta Años took to free the Netherlands from Spanish Influence. Never mind the bloody legacy of Calvinism though. The traditional head of the European church launched the crusades and backed the long slog in the Iberian Peninsula. So long as the first reaction is to frame Iran in religious terms, the Mullahs are logically correct in their claims about the enemy without.
  - eynsham 5y ago
    I agree that Islamophobia contributes to unhelpfully negative attitudes towards Iran. > It's a double standard where nobody sees a problem with England even though there's a state religion and the religious head and government head are the same person...and unlike Iran, those roles are hereditary. I don’t think that anyone familiar with both countries would consider that the rôle of the two is remotely comparable. The Queen’s influence, except when acting on the advice of the PM (i.e., doing precisely what the PM says), on the vast majority of policymaking is negligible. The Supreme Leader’s influence is much broader. The Supreme Leader chooses all sorts of important ministers (e.g., the interior and defence ministers). The IRGC directly reports to Khamanei and he does not direct it on the advice of the President. As for the established church, it has barely any effect: at most, a few votes in the Lords (which under the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949 can be overriden by the Commons.) Government policy and the wishes of the C of E are pretty clearly in tension, which is why e.g. Thatcher spent rather a lot of time criticising bishops for effectively calling her heartless. Meanwhile in Iran, all sorts of policies are dictated by the religious establishment, e.g., Qisas. > Iran today looks like what throwing off the yoke of foreign influence looks like. There are many ways to ‘throw off the yoke of foreign influence’ (and hopefully replace it with a healthy attitude towards foreign ideas.) I don’t think it’s incorrect to suggest that there are pretty substantial deficiencies in the seem not particularly to like the present path taken by the régime. See e.g. Ahmadinejad (presumably irked by being sidelined) on MEMRI (I know, I know),¹ or the election of Khatami and Rouhani (whose ambitions have often been thwarted by those you seem to be defending here.) > Never mind the bloody legacy of Calvinism though. The traditional head of the European church launched the crusades and backed the long slog in the Iberian Peninsula. This seems to be logically fallacious whataboutism—where do you get the idea that OP wants a return to Roman Catholic theocracy? > So long as the first reaction is to frame Iran in religious terms, the Mullahs are logically correct in their claims about the enemy without. Simply criticising the religious establishment as done above is common even amongst Iranians, so this seems to miss the point. Now, it may be that actually this is cover for some raving about Muslims generally or Iran qua an Islamic Republic as opposed to one say even less democratic than e.g. Pakistan or Bangladesh. But this comment seems to be a sort of reflexive defence against a certain sort of Islamophobic criticism which wasn’t actually made. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUW_XwvHQNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUW_XwvHQNw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOfDBoQ7yA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOfDBoQ7yA
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  Khruangbin has a music video featuring female pop artists from before the revolution. They get systematically erased toward the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hlGqj3ImQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hlGqj3ImQI

I've spent half a day looking through pictures of Iran from before the revolution, it was - and in many ways probably still is - an absolutely amazing country. Sooner or later the mullahs will be given their walking papers and hopefully the country can then recover some of its former splendor.

anticodon 5y ago
Yeah, I imagine it: - It would be bombed and looted by foreign army ("In the name of democracy!") - Hundreds of thousands of people will die from bombs, same amount from hunger and civil unrest caused by destruction of the infrastructure and government system (police, hospitals, etc.) - Foreign companies will take control of Iran's oil (the main reason why Iran is considered "hostile country" now is that it controls its natural resources), so that profits from selling the oil flow to other countries (exactly the same happened recently in Libya and Syria) It would become unsafe to visit, and most cities would be in ruins. Crime rates would go through the roof.
brudgers 5y ago
Europeans have been anti-Persian since before Socrates was a hoplite. It would be better if fifteen hundred years of Islamophobia was disinfected from Europe. It's a double standard where nobody sees a problem with England even though there's a state religion and the religious head and government head are the same person...and unlike Iran, those roles are hereditary. Iran today looks like what throwing off the yoke of foreign influence looks like. So far it has only been going on half as long as the Guerra de los Ochenta Años took to free the Netherlands from Spanish Influence. Never mind the bloody legacy of Calvinism though. The traditional head of the European church launched the crusades and backed the long slog in the Iberian Peninsula. So long as the first reaction is to frame Iran in religious terms, the Mullahs are logically correct in their claims about the enemy without.
- eynsham 5y ago
  I agree that Islamophobia contributes to unhelpfully negative attitudes towards Iran. > It's a double standard where nobody sees a problem with England even though there's a state religion and the religious head and government head are the same person...and unlike Iran, those roles are hereditary. I don’t think that anyone familiar with both countries would consider that the rôle of the two is remotely comparable. The Queen’s influence, except when acting on the advice of the PM (i.e., doing precisely what the PM says), on the vast majority of policymaking is negligible. The Supreme Leader’s influence is much broader. The Supreme Leader chooses all sorts of important ministers (e.g., the interior and defence ministers). The IRGC directly reports to Khamanei and he does not direct it on the advice of the President. As for the established church, it has barely any effect: at most, a few votes in the Lords (which under the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949 can be overriden by the Commons.) Government policy and the wishes of the C of E are pretty clearly in tension, which is why e.g. Thatcher spent rather a lot of time criticising bishops for effectively calling her heartless. Meanwhile in Iran, all sorts of policies are dictated by the religious establishment, e.g., Qisas. > Iran today looks like what throwing off the yoke of foreign influence looks like. There are many ways to ‘throw off the yoke of foreign influence’ (and hopefully replace it with a healthy attitude towards foreign ideas.) I don’t think it’s incorrect to suggest that there are pretty substantial deficiencies in the seem not particularly to like the present path taken by the régime. See e.g. Ahmadinejad (presumably irked by being sidelined) on MEMRI (I know, I know),¹ or the election of Khatami and Rouhani (whose ambitions have often been thwarted by those you seem to be defending here.) > Never mind the bloody legacy of Calvinism though. The traditional head of the European church launched the crusades and backed the long slog in the Iberian Peninsula. This seems to be logically fallacious whataboutism—where do you get the idea that OP wants a return to Roman Catholic theocracy? > So long as the first reaction is to frame Iran in religious terms, the Mullahs are logically correct in their claims about the enemy without. Simply criticising the religious establishment as done above is common even amongst Iranians, so this seems to miss the point. Now, it may be that actually this is cover for some raving about Muslims generally or Iran qua an Islamic Republic as opposed to one say even less democratic than e.g. Pakistan or Bangladesh. But this comment seems to be a sort of reflexive defence against a certain sort of Islamophobic criticism which wasn’t actually made. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUW_XwvHQNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUW_XwvHQNw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOfDBoQ7yA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOfDBoQ7yA
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
Khruangbin has a music video featuring female pop artists from before the revolution. They get systematically erased toward the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hlGqj3ImQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hlGqj3ImQI