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Without any context it’s hard to discern your point. Who is Chicken Little in this scenario?

reedjosh 5y ago
Yeah, I knew this was a cheap post. From my post below though... systems thinking and computer models have led to predictions of collapse only slightly more convincing than religious fanatics. Humans are highly adaptable and the power of the economic invisible hand is enormous. I for example will be growing more and more of my own food as I see the quality of food dwindle while the costs rise. Solar is only becoming cheaper. The future can be a great place, but sure we should think about what kind of future we may be facing if we don't make preparations or let someone else guide us there.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  So far, the power of the invisible hand has brought not much more besides suffering for the average person.
  - reedjosh 5y ago
    The average person in the US lives better than a king did throughout most of history. You're free to go live in the wilderness if you think modernity has only brought about suffering, but capitalism brought you that device you typed this message on.
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      I agree that the average person today lives like a king, but I disagree that capitalism is what brought it about. IMO, the capitalism = progress relationship is coincidental, not causal. The march of science and technology would have continued, capitalism or no capitalism. Even the Soviets, for all the problems and violence caused by their unfree economic system, managed to make tech and scientific progress work, albeit slower. And yes, capitalism brought me the smartphone that I'm typing on today: with all the harmful, attention-grabbing and addictive features. That's why I'm trying to quit smartphones altogether.
      - reedjosh 5y ago
        It sounds like you and I actually have fairly similar opinions on a lot of things. For me, free people exchanging goods and services in a voluntary manner while respecting each other's property is ideal capitalism. > IMO, the capitalism = progress relationship is coincidental, not causal. So, this is the major point we disagree on. I believe that what we have today is crony capitalism, and that's why it's easy to believe that capitalism doesn't bring progress. At this point we barely have a capitalist society. This still doesn't get to the heart of why we're all addicted to smart phones and whatnot though. I think that's more to do with culture being curated by mega corps in conjunction with rapid technological progress. Culture would normally be enough that people would eventually reject unhealthy practices, but with culture all but forced on us, and the pace of technological growth, culture has not caught up. I don't know exactly what the solution is, but cord cutting as a movement was a major net positive. I think the next step may be something like leaving walled gardens for decentralized culture hubs.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  ==I for example will be growing more and more of my own food as I see the quality of food dwindle while the costs rise.== Couldn’t this be seen as evidence things are moving in the direction toward collapse? You’ve even taken measures to account for it which makes you more independent and less reliant on “society”. If a critical mass of people do that, it’s possible to see society (as we know it) collapse. Maybe you are getting hung up on the word “collapse” as though it is synonymous with “extinct”?

Yeah, I knew this was a cheap post. From my post below though... systems thinking and computer models have led to predictions of collapse only slightly more convincing than religious fanatics. Humans are highly adaptable and the power of the economic invisible hand is enormous. I for example will be growing more and more of my own food as I see the quality of food dwindle while the costs rise. Solar is only becoming cheaper. The future can be a great place, but sure we should think about what kind of future we may be facing if we don't make preparations or let someone else guide us there.

selfhoster11 5y ago
So far, the power of the invisible hand has brought not much more besides suffering for the average person.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  The average person in the US lives better than a king did throughout most of history. You're free to go live in the wilderness if you think modernity has only brought about suffering, but capitalism brought you that device you typed this message on.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    I agree that the average person today lives like a king, but I disagree that capitalism is what brought it about. IMO, the capitalism = progress relationship is coincidental, not causal. The march of science and technology would have continued, capitalism or no capitalism. Even the Soviets, for all the problems and violence caused by their unfree economic system, managed to make tech and scientific progress work, albeit slower. And yes, capitalism brought me the smartphone that I'm typing on today: with all the harmful, attention-grabbing and addictive features. That's why I'm trying to quit smartphones altogether.
    - reedjosh 5y ago
      It sounds like you and I actually have fairly similar opinions on a lot of things. For me, free people exchanging goods and services in a voluntary manner while respecting each other's property is ideal capitalism. > IMO, the capitalism = progress relationship is coincidental, not causal. So, this is the major point we disagree on. I believe that what we have today is crony capitalism, and that's why it's easy to believe that capitalism doesn't bring progress. At this point we barely have a capitalist society. This still doesn't get to the heart of why we're all addicted to smart phones and whatnot though. I think that's more to do with culture being curated by mega corps in conjunction with rapid technological progress. Culture would normally be enough that people would eventually reject unhealthy practices, but with culture all but forced on us, and the pace of technological growth, culture has not caught up. I don't know exactly what the solution is, but cord cutting as a movement was a major net positive. I think the next step may be something like leaving walled gardens for decentralized culture hubs.
long_time_gone 5y ago
==I for example will be growing more and more of my own food as I see the quality of food dwindle while the costs rise.== Couldn’t this be seen as evidence things are moving in the direction toward collapse? You’ve even taken measures to account for it which makes you more independent and less reliant on “society”. If a critical mass of people do that, it’s possible to see society (as we know it) collapse. Maybe you are getting hung up on the word “collapse” as though it is synonymous with “extinct”?