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I would have trouble with the blatant hypocrisy. To take an example from just yesterday, Amazon has internal documents that instruct managers to hide from emplo

I would have trouble with the blatant hypocrisy. To take an example from just yesterday, Amazon has internal documents that instruct managers to hide from employees when they're on a PIP. How can you reconcile that with "Strive to be Earth's Best Employer"? https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-tells-bosses-to-conceal-when-employees-are-on-a-performance-management-plan/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-tells-bo... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27786009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27786009

tdowns 5y ago
That LP didn't exist until after the article was published. There is some hope that it could be leveraged to remove that kind of guidance from mid-level leaders.
b3kart 5y ago
There are probably better examples you could've used. They've literally added "Strive to be Earth's Best Employer" to the list of principles like yesterday. At the very least they seem to have recognized the problem, shouldn't we give them an opportunity to actually try to fix it?
imwillofficial 5y ago
“Strive to be earth’s best employer” isn’t a leadership principle. - oh shit, it is now! My bad! And “instruct managers to hide from employees when they're on a PIP” This is not as clear cut. The document cited by Seattle times clearly states to not go into details of the Focus application, and instead go into how they can improve. A quote: “Do not discuss Focus with employees. Instead, tell the employee that their performance is not meeting expectations, the specific areas where they need to improve, and offer feedback and support to help them improve.”
- teachrdan 5y ago
  “Do not discuss Focus with employees." I don't know how much more direct this could possibly be. The only time the policy allows managers to tell employees they're on a PIP is if the employee asks directly. That's literally hiding the truth as much as they possibly can without actually lying.
  - kindall 5y ago
    If your manager is telling you that your performance is lacking and that you need to improve in specific areas, how is that really any different from being told you are on a PIP, and the rest of that? That is, what would you, as an employee, do differently if you were told specifically that you had been placed on a formal PIP, rather than just being told how you needed to improve?
    - tobyjsullivan 5y ago
      > what would you, as an employee, do differently Start looking for another job before I get fired. Which I assume is about 10x easier than doing so after the fact.
majormajor 5y ago
https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/9/22570579/amazon-performance-focus-plans-hidden-employees https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/9/22570579/amazon-performanc... It seems like this is a sorta "pre-PIP"? > If Amazon employees don’t improve while unknowingly in the Focus program, they are then placed into the “Pivot” program, according to previous reporting from Business Insider. Employees told Business Insider that if they were placed in Pivot, they were either offered a severance package or given a chance to be put on a performance improvement plan. So "Focus" is more a manager-focused thing and then if the manager isn't able to turn things around, out comes the real PIP, is my impression. Honestly, I've had to put someone on a PIP before, and more support and training on what to do before it got that bad would've been very appreciated. I think the manager needs to be transparent about "you need to do better" but not about internal management practices necessarily at that point.

tdowns 5y ago

That LP didn't exist until after the article was published. There is some hope that it could be leveraged to remove that kind of guidance from mid-level leaders.

b3kart 5y ago

There are probably better examples you could've used. They've literally added "Strive to be Earth's Best Employer" to the list of principles like yesterday. At the very least they seem to have recognized the problem, shouldn't we give them an opportunity to actually try to fix it?

imwillofficial 5y ago

“Strive to be earth’s best employer” isn’t a leadership principle. - oh shit, it is now! My bad! And “instruct managers to hide from employees when they're on a PIP” This is not as clear cut. The document cited by Seattle times clearly states to not go into details of the Focus application, and instead go into how they can improve. A quote: “Do not discuss Focus with employees. Instead, tell the employee that their performance is not meeting expectations, the specific areas where they need to improve, and offer feedback and support to help them improve.”

teachrdan 5y ago
“Do not discuss Focus with employees." I don't know how much more direct this could possibly be. The only time the policy allows managers to tell employees they're on a PIP is if the employee asks directly. That's literally hiding the truth as much as they possibly can without actually lying.
- kindall 5y ago
  If your manager is telling you that your performance is lacking and that you need to improve in specific areas, how is that really any different from being told you are on a PIP, and the rest of that? That is, what would you, as an employee, do differently if you were told specifically that you had been placed on a formal PIP, rather than just being told how you needed to improve?
  - tobyjsullivan 5y ago
    > what would you, as an employee, do differently Start looking for another job before I get fired. Which I assume is about 10x easier than doing so after the fact.

majormajor 5y ago

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/9/22570579/amazon-performance-focus-plans-hidden-employees https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/9/22570579/amazon-performanc... It seems like this is a sorta "pre-PIP"? > If Amazon employees don’t improve while unknowingly in the Focus program, they are then placed into the “Pivot” program, according to previous reporting from Business Insider. Employees told Business Insider that if they were placed in Pivot, they were either offered a severance package or given a chance to be put on a performance improvement plan. So "Focus" is more a manager-focused thing and then if the manager isn't able to turn things around, out comes the real PIP, is my impression. Honestly, I've had to put someone on a PIP before, and more support and training on what to do before it got that bad would've been very appreciated. I think the manager needs to be transparent about "you need to do better" but not about internal management practices necessarily at that point.