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Expand your horizons a little. Learn to use Vim or Emacs, then spend a year doing serious development in something like Ruby instead of C# or Java, and do it in
by trezor 18y ago
Expand your horizons a little. Learn to use Vim or Emacs, then spend a year doing serious development in something like Ruby instead of C# or Java, and do it in a Unix-like user environment.
So does the author suggest anyone working with Java or C# should quit their job?
Or does working with vim also provide you with an alternate space-time continuum which allows you to "just" spend one year doing doing something else entirely without it affecting the world around you and the requirements that you have a job which needs to get done?
- axod 18y agoYou can code java extremely well just using a text editor (Shock horror!) The idea you can't, or that you'll be less productive than an IDE user is just idiotic. What has the language got to do with anything? Yes, java is sometimes verbose, so? If most of your time is spent typing, you're doing it wrong IMHO, not matter how verbose the language.
- trezor 18y agoThe author suggested you should change not only the toolset you use, but also the languages. That makes it more than a light switch, and will probably interfere with getting work done. Since, you know, many companies have standards about which languages and platforms they stick to.
- cstejerean 18y agoFine, don't change the language. Keep using the same thing for 10 years until it becomes obsolete and then wonder why you're unemployed (hint: nothing to do with outsourcing).
- axod 18y agoIs lisp obsolete yet?
- cstejerean 18y agoFrom the point of view of the average programmer: yes. There are some Lisp jobs available but those are usually taken by the best programmers (as opposed to the ones that look for excuses not to learn new things). From a quick search on dice here are the number of job listings for lisp, cobol and java. Lisp: 26 Cobol: 1007 Java: 15494
- qwph 18y agoFirstly, learning more than one programming language will make you a better programmer. Secondly, you are at liberty to write code in your free time, where you can experiment with whatever language/IDE/OS combinations you deem fit. I'd argue this will also make you a better programmer.
- babul 18y agoUsing a good IDE does make you more productive. Taking the java example, most people will accomplish more using IntelliJ-IDEA than Notepad. A good IDE allows you more freedom to explore ideas and experiment faster (especially when doing something like GUI design, debugging using statefull variable inspection, or just learning new features with intellisense/autocomplete), though I'd agree most of your time should be spent thinking than typing.
- axod 18y agoI couldn't disagree more. What magical feature of an IDE "allows you more freedom to explore ideas and experiment faster"? Most people might write more lines of code or produce more classes in an IDE than text editor in Java, but most people aren't good programmers. Lines of code and number of classes often bear no relationship to productivity. Essentially though, everyone uses an 'IDE', they just don't call it that... Mine is a text editor, bash shell and browser. All you need... GUI design is a whole different kettle of fish. But a mockup builder is probably more useful for that.
- babul 18y ago> What magical feature of an IDE "allows you more freedom to explore ideas and experiment faster"? Refactoring. Code completion/validation/formatting (make fewer errors, and reformat external code to suit you). GUI design (a lot of times you will have to make GUIs, no point in avoiding it). Code analysis (on-the-fly code analysis and error-detection (syntax, compile, and run-time) = less creep-in errors, easier to spot errors earlier, and less compiles = more productivity). Performance bottleneck detection. Testing made easier (simpler an faster to build and do unit/integration/etc. tests) Framework/Design-Pattern skeletons (got an idea, think pattern X may help, try it out quickly = make a good/bad decision faster). Teamwork features (version control, changelist management, build management etc. made easier). Etc. Etc. Who said anything about more LOC being the/a measure of productivity?
- axod 18y agoI think it's best to agree to strongly disagree :) An ex-coworker was arguing how great IDEs are, his comment being "The IDE makes it so you don't have to think" I think that's the best argument against IDEs I've heard so far.
- eru 18y agoNo. But probably Emacs does.
- gcv 18y agoDo you not do any programming in your spare time? Give that a shot, and try using something other than Java or C#.
- pmorici 18y ago"serious development in something like Ruby " As if Ruby is a more "serious" language than Java or C#?
- cstejerean 18y agoI don't think doing serious development in Ruby has anything to do with Ruby being a more serious language. The point is to use it for a real project as opposed to yet another blog in X minutes.
- apotheon 18y ago> So does the author suggest anyone working with Java or C# should quit their job? No. The author (me) doesn't even suggest that anyone should stop using an IDE for Java or C# development. In fact, the author suggests that development in Java or C# is best done with an IDE, and development in Ruby or Lisp is better done with powerful text processor (like Vim or Emacs) in a Unix-like environment. If you got the impression I was saying Java and C# programmers should quit their jobs to write code in Ruby and avoid IDEs for the rest of their lives, you weren't reading what I wrote so much as reading into it. > Or does working with vim also provide you with an alternate space-time continuum which allows you to "just" spend one year doing doing something else entirely without it affecting the world around you and the requirements that you have a job which needs to get done? It wasn't meant to be taken as "only do this, and nothing else". It was instead meant to be taken as "this is all you need to do to test my point".