5 ms·

I think the article is talking about estrangement proper, where children and parents do not talk to each other at all, not that they engage but sometimes don't

I think the article is talking about estrangement proper, where children and parents do not talk to each other at all, not that they engage but sometimes don't understand one another. The former is more serious, the latter is expected.

iammisc 5y ago
I don't think I understand that either. My view of family is definitely one of obligation not understanding.
- polka_haunts_us 5y ago
  I think some young people don't view family as obligatory if it negatively affects them. My sister and I would certainly classify ourselves as such. My sister rather intentionally after graduating college cut contact with my mom to a very minimal amount, and I remember vividly my mom being in tears on a frequent basis because my sister had blocked her facebook account and wasn't responding to her daily emails about rather invasive topics that frankly, were none of her damn business. One time my mom asked me to do some chore, and after I came in I realized by looking at my browsing history that she had snuck into my room to use my facebook to snoop on my sister. It's absolutely mental. Not that she has any real room to protest here, she deliberately estranged herself in the very complete sense from her parents and sisters, I've never met a single person on that side of the family despite them living an hour away. In kind of a macro sense I appreciate my parents raising me, but I do not consider continued contact with them obligatory in any way, shape, or form, and certainly not at the level that my parents in particular want that relationship.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    > In kind of a macro sense I appreciate my parents raising me, but I do not consider continued contact with them obligatory in any way, shape, or form, and certainly not at the level that my parents in particular want that relationship. This is what I can't understand. I get not wanting a relationship if your parents were abusive. But if you 'appreciate your parents raising [you]', then clearly you think your childhood was 'good enough', so don't you think you owe them something? Anything? MY childhood was hardly perfect. My mother and father are both incredibly flawed individuals who still get on my nerves, to the point of tears many times. But... they're my parents. I mean, I've made them cry before, and I know I have all kinds of negative personality traits. I can't imagine them just leaving me like that. Sounds terrible
    - baseballdork 5y ago
      > don't you think you owe them something? Anything? IMHO, no. You don't owe your parents anything for doing the job they signed up for. I have a great relationship with my parents and had a great upbringing. It's very difficult for me to imagine cutting off contact. However, I also don't feel like I owe them a single thing and I think they'd agree with me on that.
      - cogman10 5y ago
        Hmm, I have a hard time relating precisely with this. For example, if my parents someday needed a place to stay (maybe they can't take care of themselves). I'd feel responsible for them. I definitely feel like I'd owe them that and would feel responsible for their well being. Though, that wouldn't be unconditional. I can certainly envision a bunch of situations that would change that. I guess what I'm saying is it's complicated to me.
      - ProfessorLayton 5y ago
        Humble opinions aside, if your parents live in one of 26 U.S. states, then yes you do owe your parents what amounts to basic needs at minimum [1]. Even if you and your parents are in agreement that you owe each other nothing, about half of U.S. states disagree, and they have the legal mechanisms in place to make you responsible for their needs, should they be impoverished. I'm lucky enough to have a decent upbringing and get along with my parents as well, and this comment isn't intended to be combative, but the "You don't owe your parents anything for doing the job they signed up for" is not strictly true in a legal sense. This is a reflection of American family values enshrined in law. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws
        baseballdork 5y ago
        Neither me nor my parents live in any of those states. Even if I did, legal obligation is not what this conversation was about. I spend time and share resources with my parents because I love sharing with them. If that dynamic changes, then it'll stop.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  It sounds like you had a decent family, but are you able to see that your experience isn't universal? Can you imagine that many other people have vastly worse families, with a wide range of abusive and predatory behaviors?
  - iammisc 5y ago
    Yes, I have considered that. I know many people who rightly rejected their own family. It is sad and very tragic and scary. However, I also know a lot of people raised like I was who have left as well, and see no problem with it. They had perfectly fine childhoods, but treat their parents like trash.
    - watwut 5y ago
      You dont see into other families unless you are really really close. Neither into their childhoods nor into their adult relationships. People and kids are kept away from internal conflicts and issues, whether abusive or non abusive. Sometimes you are 47 years old when you learn about stufd like alcoholism, gambling, violence in own extended seemingly model familly. Pretty heavy stuff and still managed to be quite hidden. Less heavy stuff is even easier to keept away from others. Plus people who distance or leave parents as adults often react to how relationship looks now and what it does to them. And sometimes it is done to protect your own kids or so that you are not forced to entangle yourself into new dramas.

iammisc 5y ago

I don't think I understand that either. My view of family is definitely one of obligation not understanding.

polka_haunts_us 5y ago
I think some young people don't view family as obligatory if it negatively affects them. My sister and I would certainly classify ourselves as such. My sister rather intentionally after graduating college cut contact with my mom to a very minimal amount, and I remember vividly my mom being in tears on a frequent basis because my sister had blocked her facebook account and wasn't responding to her daily emails about rather invasive topics that frankly, were none of her damn business. One time my mom asked me to do some chore, and after I came in I realized by looking at my browsing history that she had snuck into my room to use my facebook to snoop on my sister. It's absolutely mental. Not that she has any real room to protest here, she deliberately estranged herself in the very complete sense from her parents and sisters, I've never met a single person on that side of the family despite them living an hour away. In kind of a macro sense I appreciate my parents raising me, but I do not consider continued contact with them obligatory in any way, shape, or form, and certainly not at the level that my parents in particular want that relationship.
- iammisc 5y ago
  > In kind of a macro sense I appreciate my parents raising me, but I do not consider continued contact with them obligatory in any way, shape, or form, and certainly not at the level that my parents in particular want that relationship. This is what I can't understand. I get not wanting a relationship if your parents were abusive. But if you 'appreciate your parents raising [you]', then clearly you think your childhood was 'good enough', so don't you think you owe them something? Anything? MY childhood was hardly perfect. My mother and father are both incredibly flawed individuals who still get on my nerves, to the point of tears many times. But... they're my parents. I mean, I've made them cry before, and I know I have all kinds of negative personality traits. I can't imagine them just leaving me like that. Sounds terrible
  - baseballdork 5y ago
    > don't you think you owe them something? Anything? IMHO, no. You don't owe your parents anything for doing the job they signed up for. I have a great relationship with my parents and had a great upbringing. It's very difficult for me to imagine cutting off contact. However, I also don't feel like I owe them a single thing and I think they'd agree with me on that.
    - cogman10 5y ago
      Hmm, I have a hard time relating precisely with this. For example, if my parents someday needed a place to stay (maybe they can't take care of themselves). I'd feel responsible for them. I definitely feel like I'd owe them that and would feel responsible for their well being. Though, that wouldn't be unconditional. I can certainly envision a bunch of situations that would change that. I guess what I'm saying is it's complicated to me.
    - ProfessorLayton 5y ago
      Humble opinions aside, if your parents live in one of 26 U.S. states, then yes you do owe your parents what amounts to basic needs at minimum [1]. Even if you and your parents are in agreement that you owe each other nothing, about half of U.S. states disagree, and they have the legal mechanisms in place to make you responsible for their needs, should they be impoverished. I'm lucky enough to have a decent upbringing and get along with my parents as well, and this comment isn't intended to be combative, but the "You don't owe your parents anything for doing the job they signed up for" is not strictly true in a legal sense. This is a reflection of American family values enshrined in law. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws
      - baseballdork 5y ago
        Neither me nor my parents live in any of those states. Even if I did, legal obligation is not what this conversation was about. I spend time and share resources with my parents because I love sharing with them. If that dynamic changes, then it'll stop.
nate_meurer 5y ago
It sounds like you had a decent family, but are you able to see that your experience isn't universal? Can you imagine that many other people have vastly worse families, with a wide range of abusive and predatory behaviors?
- iammisc 5y ago
  Yes, I have considered that. I know many people who rightly rejected their own family. It is sad and very tragic and scary. However, I also know a lot of people raised like I was who have left as well, and see no problem with it. They had perfectly fine childhoods, but treat their parents like trash.
  - watwut 5y ago
    You dont see into other families unless you are really really close. Neither into their childhoods nor into their adult relationships. People and kids are kept away from internal conflicts and issues, whether abusive or non abusive. Sometimes you are 47 years old when you learn about stufd like alcoholism, gambling, violence in own extended seemingly model familly. Pretty heavy stuff and still managed to be quite hidden. Less heavy stuff is even easier to keept away from others. Plus people who distance or leave parents as adults often react to how relationship looks now and what it does to them. And sometimes it is done to protect your own kids or so that you are not forced to entangle yourself into new dramas.