3 ms·

I think one of the main benefits to the Windows stores (besides the fact that they sell Windows Phones, and by all accounts don't actively try to talk their cus

I think one of the main benefits to the Windows stores (besides the fact that they sell Windows Phones, and by all accounts don't actively try to talk their customers out of buying them) is the fact that they sell systems there which are part of Microsoft's Signature PC line.‡ For those unfamiliar, it's basically a system from a vendor without all the crap that they install on a fresh system. The fact that Microsoft actually has to have a service like this is certainly an interesting topic for discussion (I'm sure Microsoft would prefer that vendors not load up new pc's with garbage software that slows them down) ‡ http://signature.microsoft.com/Default.aspx http://signature.microsoft.com/Default.aspx

Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
I agree it's great you can get a PC without the crap installed but I think MS have to tackle off the root problem and have it so that's how they all come. Seriously, you'd get a noticable performance increase on the average low end laptop right off the bat if they could do that.
- m0nastic 15y ago
  My understanding of how that works (which I admit is an outsider's understanding) is that PC vendors subsidize the price of new PC's by installing crapware on them. The race to the bottom in PC pricing basically left them scrambling to find ways to keep their prices low without gutting their already-falling margins. I don't think Microsoft is in a good position to require PC's to stop doing this (unless they were willing to eat the loss of vendor revenue by lowering their Windows license cost, which would effect their own margin). I'm left optimistic by companies like Lenovo, who are now marketing crapware-less machines as a competitive advantage (as a byproduct of their Rapidboot initiative), and hope maybe other vendors will try and compete. I don't remember the last time I bought a Windows PC where the first thing I did wasn't to immediately wipe it and reinstall the OS from an OEM version, although it'd be nice not to have to do that. EDIT: realized I started two comments in a row with "Yeah,". That makes me almost as angry as if I'd littered the comment with "like, you know"'s...sigh
  - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
    I agree with every word, I just think for moderate users using mid-level or above machines, crapware is a big enough problem that MS should be being worried about the impact it's having on the public perception of Windows.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  At least with Windows today, MS has their hands tied. Anything they do to push vendors will throw antitrust flags. Their best bet, if this is their core concern, is to move to an app store model, and block these apps from ever making it into the store, so the OEMs can't install them to begin with. But honestly, that's not likely. At the end of the day the market talks. If people truly value clutter free machines they'll pay for it and OEMs will respond.
spiralganglion 15y ago
So while we're contrasting Apple and Microsoft, here's the first bit of copy on the Signature page: "New PCs may come filled with lots of trialware and sample software that slows your computer down and makes it a pain to clean out all that stuff, just to get your new PC up and running, so we do that for you!" Not only is that a hilarious contrast of the typical Mac/Windows out-of-the-box experience — right from the horse's mouth — but it's also quite poor writing. Whereas, Apple seems to have consistently excellent writing throughout their websites and products.
- m0nastic 15y ago
  Yeah, I think the model around which Microsoft licenses Windows was designed to be "hands-off" (Anti-trust/non-competitive issues aside), and now they're reaping the results of that. I'm not going to second-guess Microsoft that it wasn't the right way to do things (their sales over the past twenty years would seem to indicate that it's worked out just fine for them), but it does leave us in an odd predicament; where basically the incentives between Microsoft, the PC vendors, and the customers are not aligned. I don't know what Microsoft should (or would be allowed to based on anti-trust) do about that situation.
cubicle67 15y ago
I'm not the biggest MS fan, but they do have my sympathy in this regard. Imagine Ferrari shipping new cars to the dealers, and the first thing the dealers do is bolt on stupid large spoilers, ugly plastic body kits and paint the cars green. Every dealer does it; the only way you can buy a Ferrari is green with added plastic bits. Ferrari then have to watch as other car buyers laugh - "ha! Ferrari's are so slow and ugly. You need to spend a good day or so just to get them to run correctly". Must be pretty frustrating

Tyrannosaurs 15y ago

I agree it's great you can get a PC without the crap installed but I think MS have to tackle off the root problem and have it so that's how they all come. Seriously, you'd get a noticable performance increase on the average low end laptop right off the bat if they could do that.

m0nastic 15y ago
My understanding of how that works (which I admit is an outsider's understanding) is that PC vendors subsidize the price of new PC's by installing crapware on them. The race to the bottom in PC pricing basically left them scrambling to find ways to keep their prices low without gutting their already-falling margins. I don't think Microsoft is in a good position to require PC's to stop doing this (unless they were willing to eat the loss of vendor revenue by lowering their Windows license cost, which would effect their own margin). I'm left optimistic by companies like Lenovo, who are now marketing crapware-less machines as a competitive advantage (as a byproduct of their Rapidboot initiative), and hope maybe other vendors will try and compete. I don't remember the last time I bought a Windows PC where the first thing I did wasn't to immediately wipe it and reinstall the OS from an OEM version, although it'd be nice not to have to do that. EDIT: realized I started two comments in a row with "Yeah,". That makes me almost as angry as if I'd littered the comment with "like, you know"'s...sigh
- Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
  I agree with every word, I just think for moderate users using mid-level or above machines, crapware is a big enough problem that MS should be being worried about the impact it's having on the public perception of Windows.
kenjackson 15y ago
At least with Windows today, MS has their hands tied. Anything they do to push vendors will throw antitrust flags. Their best bet, if this is their core concern, is to move to an app store model, and block these apps from ever making it into the store, so the OEMs can't install them to begin with. But honestly, that's not likely. At the end of the day the market talks. If people truly value clutter free machines they'll pay for it and OEMs will respond.

spiralganglion 15y ago

So while we're contrasting Apple and Microsoft, here's the first bit of copy on the Signature page: "New PCs may come filled with lots of trialware and sample software that slows your computer down and makes it a pain to clean out all that stuff, just to get your new PC up and running, so we do that for you!" Not only is that a hilarious contrast of the typical Mac/Windows out-of-the-box experience — right from the horse's mouth — but it's also quite poor writing. Whereas, Apple seems to have consistently excellent writing throughout their websites and products.

m0nastic 15y ago
Yeah, I think the model around which Microsoft licenses Windows was designed to be "hands-off" (Anti-trust/non-competitive issues aside), and now they're reaping the results of that. I'm not going to second-guess Microsoft that it wasn't the right way to do things (their sales over the past twenty years would seem to indicate that it's worked out just fine for them), but it does leave us in an odd predicament; where basically the incentives between Microsoft, the PC vendors, and the customers are not aligned. I don't know what Microsoft should (or would be allowed to based on anti-trust) do about that situation.

cubicle67 15y ago

I'm not the biggest MS fan, but they do have my sympathy in this regard. Imagine Ferrari shipping new cars to the dealers, and the first thing the dealers do is bolt on stupid large spoilers, ugly plastic body kits and paint the cars green. Every dealer does it; the only way you can buy a Ferrari is green with added plastic bits. Ferrari then have to watch as other car buyers laugh - "ha! Ferrari's are so slow and ugly. You need to spend a good day or so just to get them to run correctly". Must be pretty frustrating