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I think UNIX users, seeing they're never going to get something as kickass as VS simply adopted an elitist approach and claim that for various reasons (language

• DarkShikari 18y ago
  Given what features you describe as "benefits of VS", it sounds like you haven't actually used any of the other editors you claim it is better than, since they have most of the same features. I'd guess most UNIX programmers have used Visual Studio at some point in their programming life (its hard to avoid it!), and the reason they don't like it is because their experience wasn't very good. I used Visual Studio for a week for a small project and got so sick of its interface that I ended up using it solely for the "compile" button (since the project had to use the Visual C compiler). The Visual C compiler has its own problems: for example, it is completely incapable of maintaining stack alignment, which required us to write a rather large workaround in the x264 code to disable all functions that depend on stack alignment when compiling with MSVC. Its lack of C99 support is also rather aggravating and gnaws at me every day when I find out that I have to reorganize the code I just wrote because I can't do something like declare a variable somewhere other than the top of a function. It all makes me want to throw away support for MSVC completely, but there oddly enough still seem to be people who try to compile x264 with it... In summary, there seems to be this arrogant attitude among Windows programmers that the UNIX programmers don't use their tools because they're being "elitist"... but in reality, they don't use the tools because they don't like them. And there's plenty of good reasons not to like them. (Which strikes me as odd--I've always found Windows programmers to be on average more elitist than *nix programmers--the former insists that their single IDE is unquestionably the best, while the latter will recommend dozens of editors, saying that you should pick the one you like most.)
  • Maro 18y ago
    For the last several months, in an attempt to use the Mac OS that came with my Macbook I've been trying out text-editors and IDEs available for this platform as a replacement for Visual Studio, in an attempt not to broaden my personal horizon and not be a platform-nazi. (Okay, MacOS is not UNIX..) So your claim is false, I actually have tried out many other tools to reach the approximate conclusion I described in the original post. I'd be happy to report that I found a good replacement as it would weaken my "dependence" on a particular platform (Windows).
  • apotheon 18y ago
    > Given what features you describe as "benefits of VS", it sounds like you haven't actually used any of the other editors you claim it is better than, since they have most of the same features. As I read the list of features that are apparently "missing" in everything but VS, I found myself wondering what I'd been doing all these years that made me think I had capabilities I've just been told I don't have. Vim allows me to do all kinds of stuff many VS users seem to think I can't do without VS. What's up with that? I guess the problem is that VS users expect to be able to transplant their IDE skills from VS to Vim and achieve the same level of productivity in only a week. Taking that approach to it is bound to lead to failure, just as the reverse (taking text processor skills from Vim to VS and expecting to achieve the same level of productivity in a week) would, in large part because doing the same things often requires a very different approach. That different approach doesn't necessarily make one approach any better than the other, but it is different. . . . and nobody seems willing to keep that in mind while trying out something new and different.
• sysop073 18y ago
  I am almost positive based on this that you've never opened Visual Studio before. VS has lots of really helpful and useful features; the first ones that come to mind are not "tabbed" and "search". Most of the things you listed there exist in virtually every text editor there is besides Notepad
  • Maro 18y ago
    Well, I have used VS in a professional environment (working at a semi-large software house). Part of the point I was trying to make is that VS is not just great as an IDE, it is also great as an editor, and that these particular features do not exist in any UNIX/MacOS I have come across. Your claim that most of the things exist in virtually every editor is simply not true --- many editors have many features, but none have all the features AND work well (fast, stable, etc.). E.g. Eclipse has most of the features, but I find it rather sluggish. Saying things like "I am almost positive ... you've never opened VS before" is a personal attack, childish and not true.
    • sysop073 18y ago
      "I'm positive you've never open VS before" isn't a personal attack, "I'm positive you're ignorant and ugly because I dislike your opinions" is a personal attack. I have no troubles with Eclipse, but I don't use it for big projects so maybe it does get slow. Nonetheless, the features you listed (tabs, searching, project browser and refactoring) are in every halfway decent text editor; I think Notepad++ has most or all of those. Also, you're adopted and your parents don't really love you
• demallien 18y ago
  you'll find that a lot of unix programmers use tools such as cscope when they need to navigate around large code bases. If you're a vi sort of person, having one terminal in cscope, and another on the command line to compile/checkin code, and another for the debugger gives a totally acceptable result. Of course, as always the optimal solution for a development environment depends on many things - language, host is, target, type of application etc...
  • apotheon 18y ago
    It also depends on the developer's own personal preferences -- which is part of the reason I, for one, prefer the far more flexible and configurable IDE that is known as "Unix" over the more rigidly designed IDE known as "Visual Studio".