Well yes, when you speak to experienced PHP devs that's their response when confronted with the "PHP sucks" argument -- they always say they have their own fram

Well yes, when you speak to experienced PHP devs that's their response when confronted with the "PHP sucks" argument -- they always say they have their own framework/libraries, which don't suck and thus in turn "PHP is fine"... I don't think everyone is doing that (building frameworks), or can, or even should when they're other possibilities outside of the PHP world...