5 ms·

They're in no danger of running out of people to employ. Social safety nets are too weak and economic conditions for the poor are too precarious that there are

They're in no danger of running out of people to employ. Social safety nets are too weak and economic conditions for the poor are too precarious that there are plenty of people willing to endure abusive conditions for a paycheck. The high turnover rate only ensures that they end up employing the most desperate and vulnerable.

tdsamardzhiev 5y ago
Not if the alternative to working for Amazon is, well, death by starvation. People say communism falls apart once subjects stop having reasonably similar goals. Market economy is certainly more resistant to this, but is it infinitely more resistant? How far can we push inequality before that becomes an issue? Edit: That was meant as a response to the parent comment.
- RalfWausE 5y ago
  A radical thought: If i have the alternative to work for an dystopian megacorp or starve to death... why then not choose the third option: Go to jail while causing as much damage as possible? (Disclaimer: Only a philosophical thought)
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    Because your actions will then give mega corps and the governments they control a reason to reduce your freedom even more.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    Well you don't need a Joker-style nihilistic attitude to cause as much damage as possible to everyone without distinction. This can also be achieved in a meaningful way following the workers tradition of sabotage and direct action. Hurt or destroy those people/structures making our lives hell. That makes sense. Just don't drag random people into it.
    - RalfWausE 5y ago
      Yeah, this is what i have thought... in german there is the saying "Mach kaputt was euch kaputt macht" (more or less "destroy what destroys you").
      - southerntofu 5y ago
        I like it even though i don't speak german. Thanks for sharing!
  - yossarian1408 5y ago
    Your third option is likely to only reinforce the sociopolitical conditions that lead to corporatism and starvation in the first place.
    - RalfWausE 5y ago
      I have thought about this: We know that pressure produces counterpressure, the more you knock down a populous the more likely they are to rise up and burn everything down regardless the consequeces (see the various slave revolts in history)... it might not IMPROVE the situation directly, but with every burning down of a society there is a new chance that what rises out of the ruins may be better.
      - yossarian1408 5y ago
        Hegelian dialectics
breakfastduck 5y ago
I mean, they've literally been discussing this as a risk themselves internally, so I'm not sure how you can be so sure of that.
MattGaiser 5y ago
Amazon is worried about it. https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-worker-shortage-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-wo...
yossarian1408 5y ago
It helps that a minimum wage and absurd regulation conspire to eliminate a good size of firms that would otherwise be competing in a fair labour market. And let's not get started on the taxes that small and medium sized businesses have to pay, and that Amazon is exempt from. Raising social safety nets would only lead to inflation, and so now you need to put a price ceiling on essential goods&services, which leads to a shortage, and now you're in a bigger mess than when you started. Inflation and shortages in the long term does not lead to growth, it leads too stagflation. In this instance, where there is a failure in the labour market, you don't actually have to 'fix' it, you just have to give a fair labour market a chance.
- gouda-gouda 5y ago
  Do you actually think small and medium sized businesses can really compete with Amazon at this point? Their advantage at this point, technologically and operationally, is far more than simply lower tax burden.
  - yossarian1408 5y ago
    The name of the game is positive-sum. Amazon can be a behemoth and also face competition in the labour market and others. It isn't Amazon or Mom&Pop, in a fair market there's space for both surely.
refurb 5y ago
Considering the shortage of minimum wage workers your hypothesis is clearly wrong?

tdsamardzhiev 5y ago

Not if the alternative to working for Amazon is, well, death by starvation. People say communism falls apart once subjects stop having reasonably similar goals. Market economy is certainly more resistant to this, but is it infinitely more resistant? How far can we push inequality before that becomes an issue? Edit: That was meant as a response to the parent comment.

RalfWausE 5y ago
A radical thought: If i have the alternative to work for an dystopian megacorp or starve to death... why then not choose the third option: Go to jail while causing as much damage as possible? (Disclaimer: Only a philosophical thought)
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Because your actions will then give mega corps and the governments they control a reason to reduce your freedom even more.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  Well you don't need a Joker-style nihilistic attitude to cause as much damage as possible to everyone without distinction. This can also be achieved in a meaningful way following the workers tradition of sabotage and direct action. Hurt or destroy those people/structures making our lives hell. That makes sense. Just don't drag random people into it.
  - RalfWausE 5y ago
    Yeah, this is what i have thought... in german there is the saying "Mach kaputt was euch kaputt macht" (more or less "destroy what destroys you").
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      I like it even though i don't speak german. Thanks for sharing!
- yossarian1408 5y ago
  Your third option is likely to only reinforce the sociopolitical conditions that lead to corporatism and starvation in the first place.
  - RalfWausE 5y ago
    I have thought about this: We know that pressure produces counterpressure, the more you knock down a populous the more likely they are to rise up and burn everything down regardless the consequeces (see the various slave revolts in history)... it might not IMPROVE the situation directly, but with every burning down of a society there is a new chance that what rises out of the ruins may be better.
    - yossarian1408 5y ago
      Hegelian dialectics

breakfastduck 5y ago

I mean, they've literally been discussing this as a risk themselves internally, so I'm not sure how you can be so sure of that.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Amazon is worried about it. https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-worker-shortage-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-turnover-wo...

yossarian1408 5y ago

It helps that a minimum wage and absurd regulation conspire to eliminate a good size of firms that would otherwise be competing in a fair labour market. And let's not get started on the taxes that small and medium sized businesses have to pay, and that Amazon is exempt from. Raising social safety nets would only lead to inflation, and so now you need to put a price ceiling on essential goods&services, which leads to a shortage, and now you're in a bigger mess than when you started. Inflation and shortages in the long term does not lead to growth, it leads too stagflation. In this instance, where there is a failure in the labour market, you don't actually have to 'fix' it, you just have to give a fair labour market a chance.

gouda-gouda 5y ago
Do you actually think small and medium sized businesses can really compete with Amazon at this point? Their advantage at this point, technologically and operationally, is far more than simply lower tax burden.
- yossarian1408 5y ago
  The name of the game is positive-sum. Amazon can be a behemoth and also face competition in the labour market and others. It isn't Amazon or Mom&Pop, in a fair market there's space for both surely.

refurb 5y ago

Considering the shortage of minimum wage workers your hypothesis is clearly wrong?