4 ms·

For serious ergonomics, splits are the way to go. I don't recommend the Ergodox EZ just as you note the thumb cluster is pretty terrible in actuality. https:/

For serious ergonomics, splits are the way to go. I don't recommend the Ergodox EZ just as you note the thumb cluster is pretty terrible in actuality. https://shop.keyboard.io/ https://shop.keyboard.io/ Is my recommended 'out of the box' keyboard. As you also rightly point out, there's a learning curve with a move to these kinds of keyboards but since you're on an ergodox, the gap should be significantly smaller. My daily driver is a Diverge 3 (company no longer operating), but the best one so far. Close in, thumb clusters with few, easily accessible keys. The thumb can really only access 3-4 keys easily. The real one I want to go after is the Dactyl Manuform... but omg there's no nice way to get at that thing. And the cost is so high just to 'try it out'.

pedrovhb 5y ago
I'd just like to chime in to offer a different opinion - around 1.5 year in with my Ergodox EZ, and I have no issues with the thumb keys at all. I use them for space, shift and delete/layer switch on one side, and backspace, layer switch and return on the other. It's been working well for me. There's 3 more thumb cluster keys on each side, but they're unreachable from a typing position; I use them for stuff that isn't related to typing, like closing a window and setting/navigating through bookmarks in my IDE. Overall I'm a very happy customer. Never had issues and my typing speed on it is by far the highest I have had (though admittedly I haven't tried many others). I also have much higher accuracy than I'd ever had with a standard keyboard. The first 2-4 weeks were pretty painful indeed, but now I wouldn't consider switching for anything else.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  I have never tried an Ergodox, but my main keyboard right now is a Redox, which is similar in terms of thumb cluster placement. The thumb keys gave me trouble at first, but I replaced the switches with ones that had a much lighter spring (35 cN, I think?) and since then it's been fine.
- irjustin 5y ago
  One of the problems that I have with the thumb cluster with the ergodox is placement. Given my hand size, I need to have my thumb in further extension to hit the cluster's first key. When my thumb is relaxed, it's actually sitting in the dead space. The Diverge 3[0] and the Keyboard.io[1] bring that first/main thumb key ever so slightly closer (i.e. more underneath the "b" and "n"). The next one is the the ergodox's thumbs are stacked columnar. This isn't how the thumb naturally extends, which is an arc. So the Diverge 3 and Keyboard.io both mimic this. For me, that was the deciding factor over the Ergodox. This reddit post sums my main concerns[2] [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=diverge+3&rlz=1C5CHFA_enSG897SG897&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRn7zX4uHxAhUUSX0KHSxyC34Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=976#imgrc=2DtRDl3LBV_QoM https://www.google.com/search?q=diverge+3&rlz=1C5CHFA_enSG89... [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=keyboard+io&rlz=1C5CHFA_enSG897SG897&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFoZfe4uHxAhUOVH0KHW9fAxMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=976#imgrc=Pw5wVOPqh5wqLM https://www.google.com/search?q=keyboard+io&rlz=1C5CHFA_enSG... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/ergodox/comments/e8t6pv/thumb_cluster_should_i_buy_an_ergodox/fagj8yj?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/ergodox/comments/e8t6pv/thumb_clust...
  - stavros 5y ago
    I made an open source split ortho keyboard for me (that I should really write about) and gave the thumb keys some thought and measurement. Maybe you'd like to try it out, it's quite easy to build: https://gitlab.com/stavros/george https://gitlab.com/stavros/george It resembles the Ergodox EZ, but with a more convenient thumb cluster.
- yobananaboy 5y ago
  > There's 3 more thumb cluster keys on each side, but they're unreachable from a typing position; I use them for stuff that isn't related to typing, like closing a window and setting/navigating through bookmarks in my IDE. I rarely use those smaller keys on the thumb cluster without moving my entire hand (which is generally for alt tabbing, and I should figure out a better way to do that). The main reason I was interested in the Ergodox was that my Razer Orbweaver was having issues, and I really liked the ortholinear layout for gaming. Now I've got separate layouts for different game types (fps, mmo, rts), and I just move the right half out of the way for more mouse room. Can't go back now, I struggle to type on any normal keyboards.
vasac 5y ago
> For serious ergonomics, splits are the way to go. That's my experience too. A year ago I switched to Kyria[0] and now I'm baffled why such keyboards aren't much more popular. [0] https://splitkb.com/ https://splitkb.com/
- 100011_100001 5y ago
  Waiting on my PCB to arrive. I already have the caps and switches...I can't wait.
heresie-dabord 5y ago
> For serious ergonomics, splits are the way to go. As with the shoe industry's atrocious consumer footwear, the keyboard industry could and should do much better to protect the uninformed consumer. My personal favourite split keyboard is the Goldtouch.[1] I'm a longtime user and very happy customer. [1] https://www.goldtouch.com/ergonomic-keyboards/ https://www.goldtouch.com/ergonomic-keyboards/
nico_h 5y ago
For the Dactyl Manuform there are a few shops that can sell one but yeah, the price is high: https://dactyl.bigcartel.com/ https://dactyl.bigcartel.com/ (under $150) https://bastardkb.com/ https://bastardkb.com/ (Above $300) Otherwise there are some shops on etsy. You can always lurk on r/mechmarket or ask in the r/ergoMechKeyboard

pedrovhb 5y ago

I'd just like to chime in to offer a different opinion - around 1.5 year in with my Ergodox EZ, and I have no issues with the thumb keys at all. I use them for space, shift and delete/layer switch on one side, and backspace, layer switch and return on the other. It's been working well for me. There's 3 more thumb cluster keys on each side, but they're unreachable from a typing position; I use them for stuff that isn't related to typing, like closing a window and setting/navigating through bookmarks in my IDE. Overall I'm a very happy customer. Never had issues and my typing speed on it is by far the highest I have had (though admittedly I haven't tried many others). I also have much higher accuracy than I'd ever had with a standard keyboard. The first 2-4 weeks were pretty painful indeed, but now I wouldn't consider switching for anything else.

mumblemumble 5y ago
I have never tried an Ergodox, but my main keyboard right now is a Redox, which is similar in terms of thumb cluster placement. The thumb keys gave me trouble at first, but I replaced the switches with ones that had a much lighter spring (35 cN, I think?) and since then it's been fine.
irjustin 5y ago
One of the problems that I have with the thumb cluster with the ergodox is placement. Given my hand size, I need to have my thumb in further extension to hit the cluster's first key. When my thumb is relaxed, it's actually sitting in the dead space. The Diverge 3[0] and the Keyboard.io[1] bring that first/main thumb key ever so slightly closer (i.e. more underneath the "b" and "n"). The next one is the the ergodox's thumbs are stacked columnar. This isn't how the thumb naturally extends, which is an arc. So the Diverge 3 and Keyboard.io both mimic this. For me, that was the deciding factor over the Ergodox. This reddit post sums my main concerns[2] [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=diverge+3&rlz=1C5CHFA_enSG897SG897&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRn7zX4uHxAhUUSX0KHSxyC34Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=976#imgrc=2DtRDl3LBV_QoM https://www.google.com/search?q=diverge+3&rlz=1C5CHFA_enSG89... [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=keyboard+io&rlz=1C5CHFA_enSG897SG897&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFoZfe4uHxAhUOVH0KHW9fAxMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=976#imgrc=Pw5wVOPqh5wqLM https://www.google.com/search?q=keyboard+io&rlz=1C5CHFA_enSG... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/ergodox/comments/e8t6pv/thumb_cluster_should_i_buy_an_ergodox/fagj8yj?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/ergodox/comments/e8t6pv/thumb_clust...
- stavros 5y ago
  I made an open source split ortho keyboard for me (that I should really write about) and gave the thumb keys some thought and measurement. Maybe you'd like to try it out, it's quite easy to build: https://gitlab.com/stavros/george https://gitlab.com/stavros/george It resembles the Ergodox EZ, but with a more convenient thumb cluster.
yobananaboy 5y ago
> There's 3 more thumb cluster keys on each side, but they're unreachable from a typing position; I use them for stuff that isn't related to typing, like closing a window and setting/navigating through bookmarks in my IDE. I rarely use those smaller keys on the thumb cluster without moving my entire hand (which is generally for alt tabbing, and I should figure out a better way to do that). The main reason I was interested in the Ergodox was that my Razer Orbweaver was having issues, and I really liked the ortholinear layout for gaming. Now I've got separate layouts for different game types (fps, mmo, rts), and I just move the right half out of the way for more mouse room. Can't go back now, I struggle to type on any normal keyboards.

vasac 5y ago

> For serious ergonomics, splits are the way to go. That's my experience too. A year ago I switched to Kyria[0] and now I'm baffled why such keyboards aren't much more popular. [0] https://splitkb.com/ https://splitkb.com/

100011_100001 5y ago
Waiting on my PCB to arrive. I already have the caps and switches...I can't wait.

heresie-dabord 5y ago

> For serious ergonomics, splits are the way to go. As with the shoe industry's atrocious consumer footwear, the keyboard industry could and should do much better to protect the uninformed consumer. My personal favourite split keyboard is the Goldtouch.[1] I'm a longtime user and very happy customer. [1] https://www.goldtouch.com/ergonomic-keyboards/ https://www.goldtouch.com/ergonomic-keyboards/

nico_h 5y ago

For the Dactyl Manuform there are a few shops that can sell one but yeah, the price is high: https://dactyl.bigcartel.com/ https://dactyl.bigcartel.com/ (under $150) https://bastardkb.com/ https://bastardkb.com/ (Above $300) Otherwise there are some shops on etsy. You can always lurk on r/mechmarket or ask in the r/ergoMechKeyboard