5 ms·

FF market share isn't a technical or ideological issue - it's marketing and platform capture. Chrome is the new IE and has the entire Google ecosystem tied in w

by yborg 5y ago

FF market share isn't a technical or ideological issue - it's marketing and platform capture. Chrome is the new IE and has the entire Google ecosystem tied in with it to make it a compelling platform. They were also smart to push the Chromebook into schools so a couple of generations of kids grew up with The Web = Google Chrome. Microsoft installs Edge by default on Windows. These two companies alone have hundreds of times the resources of Mozilla. And the resources they do have they apply to things like Mitchell Baker's compensation. Without any effort to gain mindshare, the technical an social merits of Firefox are irrelevant. This isn't something you can grass-roots with a 3% share, you need influencers to broadcast, and that pretty much means you have to lay out some money. Unless maybe you can get Elon to shill Firefox in a tweet or something...

fleddr 5y ago
Agree with most of what you said, but want to add some nuance to some statements. The IE comparison in dominance would be accurate, but it's worthwhile to point out that Google aggressively pushes web tech forward, whilst IE largely stagnated it. I think that's a meaningful difference, at least to developers. And it's not just a passing note either. Firefox' once strong position was made possible by the gap left behind by IE. There is no gap now. The dominant party is speeding ahead. Edge is an interesting case, as it shows the vast power of Google. Edge's market share is an embarrassing 3.4% in total, and on mobile about zero. This shows that even with a desktop monopoly, they can't push it effectively. Supposedly, desktop users still keep using Chrome. Why wouldn't they? Edge is Chromium. Further, Microsoft does not have a single mass consumer service (like gmail, youtube, etc) to push it either. On mobile, Edge has no meaningful presence, and if mobile is some 70% of traffic these days, one can only conclude that all powerful Microsoft is completely unable to push a browser. If they can't, how can Mozilla?
- dannyw 5y ago
  You are right that Google is aggressively pushing the web forward, but it's debatable whether it's a good thing; if you look at recent initiatives like FLoC, Web Packaging and Manifest v3.
  - fleddr 5y ago
    Depends on the individual feature/standard. I'd say the vast majority of their work is not controversial or extremely beneficial to just Google, minus a minority of exceptions like the ones you mentioned.
- claviska 5y ago
  IE pushed the web forward initially. It was only after it won that it stagnated. As a developer, this is my biggest fear for Chromium.
  - fleddr 5y ago
    I honestly don't fear that. Times are different. Google wants the web to succeed, whereas Microsoft saw it as a threat. In addition, in the case of stagnation it would be relatively easy for a Chromium clone to fill the gap.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Google wants Web == ChromeOS, it is their Windows, naturally they want it to succeed. Android and Fuchsia are also ways to achieve it. Chromium lacks lots of relevant features that most users actually want from Chrome.
- int_19h 5y ago
  What people forget is that IE was also very actively pushing the web tech forward (albeit not via standards), before the stagnation that was IE6.

by yborg 5y ago

fleddr 5y ago

Agree with most of what you said, but want to add some nuance to some statements. The IE comparison in dominance would be accurate, but it's worthwhile to point out that Google aggressively pushes web tech forward, whilst IE largely stagnated it. I think that's a meaningful difference, at least to developers. And it's not just a passing note either. Firefox' once strong position was made possible by the gap left behind by IE. There is no gap now. The dominant party is speeding ahead. Edge is an interesting case, as it shows the vast power of Google. Edge's market share is an embarrassing 3.4% in total, and on mobile about zero. This shows that even with a desktop monopoly, they can't push it effectively. Supposedly, desktop users still keep using Chrome. Why wouldn't they? Edge is Chromium. Further, Microsoft does not have a single mass consumer service (like gmail, youtube, etc) to push it either. On mobile, Edge has no meaningful presence, and if mobile is some 70% of traffic these days, one can only conclude that all powerful Microsoft is completely unable to push a browser. If they can't, how can Mozilla?

dannyw 5y ago
You are right that Google is aggressively pushing the web forward, but it's debatable whether it's a good thing; if you look at recent initiatives like FLoC, Web Packaging and Manifest v3.
- fleddr 5y ago
  Depends on the individual feature/standard. I'd say the vast majority of their work is not controversial or extremely beneficial to just Google, minus a minority of exceptions like the ones you mentioned.
claviska 5y ago
IE pushed the web forward initially. It was only after it won that it stagnated. As a developer, this is my biggest fear for Chromium.
- fleddr 5y ago
  I honestly don't fear that. Times are different. Google wants the web to succeed, whereas Microsoft saw it as a threat. In addition, in the case of stagnation it would be relatively easy for a Chromium clone to fill the gap.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Google wants Web == ChromeOS, it is their Windows, naturally they want it to succeed. Android and Fuchsia are also ways to achieve it. Chromium lacks lots of relevant features that most users actually want from Chrome.
int_19h 5y ago
What people forget is that IE was also very actively pushing the web tech forward (albeit not via standards), before the stagnation that was IE6.