7 ms·

This is an interesting topic and I haven't considered it fully. I have a standing desk and a really good ergonomic chair and every time I need to do extended w

This is an interesting topic and I haven't considered it fully. I have a standing desk and a really good ergonomic chair and every time I need to do extended work away from home (like in a vacation rental) it reminds me how important a good setup is. What I'm now wondering about with all this talk about gravity and blood circulation - is anyone here using those 0 gravity setups where the screen is hanging above you and you are practically lying down ? It seems like it would fix all the issues, have massive health benefits in the long run - if it actually works I could justify 5k$ but I don't have a chance to try it and I haven't heard about anyone using them. I suspect HN crowd is a good place to ask - anyone has info on how effective they actually are ? What are the downsides ? Is it just the cost ? We spend 8+ hours 5+ days a week at the computer - I'm sure over a decade or two the investment would pay off if it prevents back pain, removes strain from your heart and keeps you more rested while working.

iratewizard 5y ago
I use a zero gravity. Specifically, MWE labs. Downsides were taking it apart to get it to my second floor home office. Upsides are comfort and not getting pain from working long hours. I've owned for over 2 years now. I don't use the zero gravity aspect of it a ton, though. It's still worth it in my opinion for the ability to make micro adjustments and overall ergonomics.
knuthsat 5y ago
I’m skeptical. When I lay down and not think I fall asleep. If I have to think hard and work I’m pretty sure something is keeping me awake but I’m not sure if it’s good for my health. I think similar thing happens to a degree when sitting.
- reader_mode 5y ago
  I don't think this is fully lying down [1], looks more like dentist chair kind of a setup. My chair can almost recline that much and it feels weird looking up but I would probably get used to it so I'm not that skeptical it would work. I just wonder if the benefits are there and if there are any drawbacks. [1] https://altwork.com/ https://altwork.com/
  - andy_ppp 5y ago
    $4950 wow! I mean that’s crazy…
    - reader_mode 5y ago
      Yeah looking into the alternatives it doesn't seem like there's anything significantly cheaper (maybe I missed it).
    - rewq4321 5y ago
      I'm hoping that the next generation of VR headsets will be good enough (mainly in terms of resolution) that I'll be able to use one for coding. Seems the majority of the $5k is just for the fancy hanging screen.
  - Ronson 5y ago
    I think Linus Tech Tips looked at one of these, if it wasn't the same it was similar, it was very jiggly and seemed irritating. I also thought that a Semi Circle chair which started at sitting position and over X hours each second, it shifted X of a degree until you finished lying down so there was constant change. No idea how that would work though. Standing desk solved my back problems, but totally unhappy with all ergonomic chairs so far (Cheap-to-Herman Miller mainly). I kind of gave up burning money on them because it takes several weeks to get a feeling for a chair.
  - thom 5y ago
    How does the magnetic desk work? I’ve got a Moonlander keyboard that’s mostly plastic, how would it stay in place?
cronix 5y ago
> removes strain from your heart If anything, I think our largest (modern) collective societal health problem is that we do wayyyy to much trying to avoid straining the heart. For how much of human history were we not working mostly sedentary? It has a cost. The body is meant to be worked. It loses strength and stamina when it isn't. I don't think the answer is to do even less. Besides, do you know how many involuntary naps I'd take if I was laying down all day?
- toxik 5y ago
  This is heavily contested, yes exercise is healthy but straining yourself regularly also has a cost. Most people either exercise really hard or not at all, I think what’s actually healthy is a moderate amount of exercise and the best type differs with age and occupation.
  - IX-103 5y ago
    More importantly is having a variety of moderate exercise mixed in throughout the day. Your lymph system relies on the movements of your skeletal muscles to push anything not water soluble through your body. This includes fats, various local inflammation signaling molecules, etc.
    - hanniabu 5y ago
      Interesting, had no idea about that with the lymphs
      - lm28469 5y ago
        I think this is one of the most important health information most people have no idea about. When you feel sick don't stay in bed, go for walks, a large part of your immune system is passive and rely on muscle contraction to work optimally.
        GuB-42 5y ago
ajuc 5y ago
> What I'm now wondering about with all this talk about gravity and blood circulation - is anyone here using those 0 gravity setups where the screen is hanging above you and you are practically lying down ? I just put laptop on my bed, put a half-pumped sitting ball on the bed near the laptop and lie belly-down on it. About half the working time I just sit normally near my desk and the other half I change to this bed "setup". No back pains for over a year now (but I also started walking ~8 km a day so it probably helped too).
- Zancarius 5y ago
  I'd guess the walking probably contributed more. I've had issues with my back for most of my life. When I'm physically active (walking, resistance training, etc) and strengthen my core, I find that the problems subside to the point where I rarely hurt myself. It still happens but with much less frequency. Posture and avoiding RSI-like outcomes helps too, but I genuinely think strengthening related muscle groups helps more. Not a doctor though, so take this opinion with an equivalently-sized grain of salt!
RobertoG 5y ago
>>"would pay off if it prevents back pain, removes strain from your heart and keeps you more rested while working. " If that's the case, astronauts should come back healthier from space instead of less healthy.
- staticassertion 5y ago
  Yeah, astronauts are definitely the ideal control group.
OisinMoran 5y ago
I saw this post at some point and thought it was pretty interesting. It gives ways to do this for much less than 5k https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-computing/ https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-computing/
eggsmediumrare 5y ago
I sit on a wooden kitchen chair at a kitchen table. This is extremely uncomfortable, and thus forces me to get up and move around frequently. I saw this somewhere and really took it to heart: "the only bad posture is the one you spend too much time in."
erano 5y ago
The most recent episode[1] of the Huberman Lab Podcast[0] talked about this briefly, in the context of alertness and focus: ...I haven't figured out yet how to develop a workstation where the computer is above me. I think the only way to really do that is actually to tilt one's body back, but actually that's not a good idea either. They have done studies recording from areas of the brain associated with alertness. Areas like locus coeruleus in the so-called reticular activating system. What they found is that depending on how reclined you are or upright you are, you will decrease with reclining and increase with sitting forward your levels of alertness. So body posture and whether or not your upright or reclining will impact your levels of alertness in the predictable ways. And where you position your eyes, whet her or not your eyes are upright, so to speak, looking up or directly forward or looking down, will dic tate whether or not you are feeling more alert or more sleepy, respectively. So try and arrange a work station or a position of your body in your chair or your standing desk, whatever it is, that allows you to work with a heightened state of alertness. (text pulled from Youtube captions) [0] https://hubermanlab.com/ https://hubermanlab.com/ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvDEmo6uS4&t=2250 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvDEmo6uS4&t=2250
xwdv 5y ago
The best setup is an office where you set it up a bit like a gym. You have your basic standing desk, but also various weights and resistance bands and a pull-up bar close by. As you think about solving problems or throughout the day, you can play around with random exercises to keep your conscious mind occupied so your subconscious can focus better.
- egman_ekki 5y ago
  That already exists, of course ;) https://youtu.be/ntc1dRSbo2U https://youtu.be/ntc1dRSbo2U
fouc 5y ago
It would provide way more health benefit to have a treadmill at the desk and walk at 1mph while working. Removing all strain would be the worst thing you can do health-wise. Adding support tends to weaken muscles. Use it or lose it.
erfgh 5y ago
Sounds like it would dry out your eyes.
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>We spend 8+ hours 5+ days a week at the computer This is the real problem. Any ergonomic solution is treating the symptoms rather than the cause.
lm28469 5y ago
> is anyone here using those 0 gravity setups where the screen is hanging above you and you are practically lying down ? Just the fact that people unirionically ask this question these days make me feel uneasy. Your body is literally screaming at your to move more, not less, listen to it. Work in 30 min blocks and go for walks in between, anything other than "how can I become a passive typing machine which doesn't move a muscle for 8 hours straight" please. There isn't enough money in the world to buy a setup that will get rid of these issues, just be active, that's all there is, if you know how to sit properly, take breaks and exercise regularly you could use a 5$ ikea stool and never have back/shoulder issues. People want the magic pill to be healthy but focus on all the wrong things...
- to1y 5y ago
  Going for walks every 30mins will leave you with very little accomplished at the end of the day. The idea is if you're to spend prolonged periods of time at a computer its possible a lying position is most optimal.
  - lm28469 5y ago
    > Going for walks every 30mins will leave you with very little accomplished at the end of the day. I care more about my health and long term well being than my company and the code I write. Walking 5 min every 30min won't kill your productivity, it might have the opposite effect actually. I started exercising when I saw that most of my older peers in the field were fat/obese, had poor posture and no stamina whatsoever, these people are literally rotting day by day sitting in front of a computer It seems so insane to me that some people internalised the idea that companies and productivity are the #1 priority in life, I can't even begin to wrap my head around that. As if selling your time wasn't enough, now you have to sell your body. Unless you live in some weird hellhole of a country without mandatory rest breaks laws I don't see why you would put yourself through sitting more than a few hours at once
- vladak 5y ago
  This. Reading about 0 gravity setup immediately reminded me of the suspensors used by Vladimir Harkonnen in the Dune. I have been using standing desk for a year, trying to switch sitting and standing frequently, in my case at least every hour. Why ? Firstly, my physiotherapist said her stance on the long term standing is negative since it can lead to imbalances - humans tend to put more weight on one feet, for instance. Secondly, there was a long article in local weekly magazine about sitting and standing, basically saying that the human body will adapt to whatever condition there is. For sitting, this means the muscles etc. will eventually "freeze"; the only way how to fight that is constantly subject the body to change in posture.
locust101 5y ago
Which chair do you have?

iratewizard 5y ago

I use a zero gravity. Specifically, MWE labs. Downsides were taking it apart to get it to my second floor home office. Upsides are comfort and not getting pain from working long hours. I've owned for over 2 years now. I don't use the zero gravity aspect of it a ton, though. It's still worth it in my opinion for the ability to make micro adjustments and overall ergonomics.

knuthsat 5y ago

I’m skeptical. When I lay down and not think I fall asleep. If I have to think hard and work I’m pretty sure something is keeping me awake but I’m not sure if it’s good for my health. I think similar thing happens to a degree when sitting.

reader_mode 5y ago
I don't think this is fully lying down [1], looks more like dentist chair kind of a setup. My chair can almost recline that much and it feels weird looking up but I would probably get used to it so I'm not that skeptical it would work. I just wonder if the benefits are there and if there are any drawbacks. [1] https://altwork.com/ https://altwork.com/
- andy_ppp 5y ago
  $4950 wow! I mean that’s crazy…
  - reader_mode 5y ago
    Yeah looking into the alternatives it doesn't seem like there's anything significantly cheaper (maybe I missed it).
  - rewq4321 5y ago
    I'm hoping that the next generation of VR headsets will be good enough (mainly in terms of resolution) that I'll be able to use one for coding. Seems the majority of the $5k is just for the fancy hanging screen.
- Ronson 5y ago
  I think Linus Tech Tips looked at one of these, if it wasn't the same it was similar, it was very jiggly and seemed irritating. I also thought that a Semi Circle chair which started at sitting position and over X hours each second, it shifted X of a degree until you finished lying down so there was constant change. No idea how that would work though. Standing desk solved my back problems, but totally unhappy with all ergonomic chairs so far (Cheap-to-Herman Miller mainly). I kind of gave up burning money on them because it takes several weeks to get a feeling for a chair.
- thom 5y ago
  How does the magnetic desk work? I’ve got a Moonlander keyboard that’s mostly plastic, how would it stay in place?

cronix 5y ago

> removes strain from your heart If anything, I think our largest (modern) collective societal health problem is that we do wayyyy to much trying to avoid straining the heart. For how much of human history were we not working mostly sedentary? It has a cost. The body is meant to be worked. It loses strength and stamina when it isn't. I don't think the answer is to do even less. Besides, do you know how many involuntary naps I'd take if I was laying down all day?

toxik 5y ago
This is heavily contested, yes exercise is healthy but straining yourself regularly also has a cost. Most people either exercise really hard or not at all, I think what’s actually healthy is a moderate amount of exercise and the best type differs with age and occupation.
- IX-103 5y ago
  More importantly is having a variety of moderate exercise mixed in throughout the day. Your lymph system relies on the movements of your skeletal muscles to push anything not water soluble through your body. This includes fats, various local inflammation signaling molecules, etc.
  - hanniabu 5y ago
    Interesting, had no idea about that with the lymphs
    - lm28469 5y ago
      I think this is one of the most important health information most people have no idea about. When you feel sick don't stay in bed, go for walks, a large part of your immune system is passive and rely on muscle contraction to work optimally.
      - GuB-42 5y ago

ajuc 5y ago

> What I'm now wondering about with all this talk about gravity and blood circulation - is anyone here using those 0 gravity setups where the screen is hanging above you and you are practically lying down ? I just put laptop on my bed, put a half-pumped sitting ball on the bed near the laptop and lie belly-down on it. About half the working time I just sit normally near my desk and the other half I change to this bed "setup". No back pains for over a year now (but I also started walking ~8 km a day so it probably helped too).

Zancarius 5y ago
I'd guess the walking probably contributed more. I've had issues with my back for most of my life. When I'm physically active (walking, resistance training, etc) and strengthen my core, I find that the problems subside to the point where I rarely hurt myself. It still happens but with much less frequency. Posture and avoiding RSI-like outcomes helps too, but I genuinely think strengthening related muscle groups helps more. Not a doctor though, so take this opinion with an equivalently-sized grain of salt!

RobertoG 5y ago

>>"would pay off if it prevents back pain, removes strain from your heart and keeps you more rested while working. " If that's the case, astronauts should come back healthier from space instead of less healthy.

staticassertion 5y ago
Yeah, astronauts are definitely the ideal control group.

OisinMoran 5y ago

I saw this post at some point and thought it was pretty interesting. It gives ways to do this for much less than 5k https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-computing/ https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-computing/

eggsmediumrare 5y ago

I sit on a wooden kitchen chair at a kitchen table. This is extremely uncomfortable, and thus forces me to get up and move around frequently. I saw this somewhere and really took it to heart: "the only bad posture is the one you spend too much time in."

erano 5y ago

The most recent episode[1] of the Huberman Lab Podcast[0] talked about this briefly, in the context of alertness and focus: ...I haven't figured out yet how to develop a workstation where the computer is above me. I think the only way to really do that is actually to tilt one's body back, but actually that's not a good idea either. They have done studies recording from areas of the brain associated with alertness. Areas like locus coeruleus in the so-called reticular activating system. What they found is that depending on how reclined you are or upright you are, you will decrease with reclining and increase with sitting forward your levels of alertness. So body posture and whether or not your upright or reclining will impact your levels of alertness in the predictable ways. And where you position your eyes, whet her or not your eyes are upright, so to speak, looking up or directly forward or looking down, will dic tate whether or not you are feeling more alert or more sleepy, respectively. So try and arrange a work station or a position of your body in your chair or your standing desk, whatever it is, that allows you to work with a heightened state of alertness. (text pulled from Youtube captions) [0] https://hubermanlab.com/ https://hubermanlab.com/ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvDEmo6uS4&t=2250 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvDEmo6uS4&t=2250

xwdv 5y ago

The best setup is an office where you set it up a bit like a gym. You have your basic standing desk, but also various weights and resistance bands and a pull-up bar close by. As you think about solving problems or throughout the day, you can play around with random exercises to keep your conscious mind occupied so your subconscious can focus better.

egman_ekki 5y ago
That already exists, of course ;) https://youtu.be/ntc1dRSbo2U https://youtu.be/ntc1dRSbo2U

fouc 5y ago

It would provide way more health benefit to have a treadmill at the desk and walk at 1mph while working. Removing all strain would be the worst thing you can do health-wise. Adding support tends to weaken muscles. Use it or lose it.

erfgh 5y ago

Sounds like it would dry out your eyes.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

>We spend 8+ hours 5+ days a week at the computer This is the real problem. Any ergonomic solution is treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

lm28469 5y ago

> is anyone here using those 0 gravity setups where the screen is hanging above you and you are practically lying down ? Just the fact that people unirionically ask this question these days make me feel uneasy. Your body is literally screaming at your to move more, not less, listen to it. Work in 30 min blocks and go for walks in between, anything other than "how can I become a passive typing machine which doesn't move a muscle for 8 hours straight" please. There isn't enough money in the world to buy a setup that will get rid of these issues, just be active, that's all there is, if you know how to sit properly, take breaks and exercise regularly you could use a 5$ ikea stool and never have back/shoulder issues. People want the magic pill to be healthy but focus on all the wrong things...

to1y 5y ago
Going for walks every 30mins will leave you with very little accomplished at the end of the day. The idea is if you're to spend prolonged periods of time at a computer its possible a lying position is most optimal.
- lm28469 5y ago
  > Going for walks every 30mins will leave you with very little accomplished at the end of the day. I care more about my health and long term well being than my company and the code I write. Walking 5 min every 30min won't kill your productivity, it might have the opposite effect actually. I started exercising when I saw that most of my older peers in the field were fat/obese, had poor posture and no stamina whatsoever, these people are literally rotting day by day sitting in front of a computer It seems so insane to me that some people internalised the idea that companies and productivity are the #1 priority in life, I can't even begin to wrap my head around that. As if selling your time wasn't enough, now you have to sell your body. Unless you live in some weird hellhole of a country without mandatory rest breaks laws I don't see why you would put yourself through sitting more than a few hours at once
vladak 5y ago
This. Reading about 0 gravity setup immediately reminded me of the suspensors used by Vladimir Harkonnen in the Dune. I have been using standing desk for a year, trying to switch sitting and standing frequently, in my case at least every hour. Why ? Firstly, my physiotherapist said her stance on the long term standing is negative since it can lead to imbalances - humans tend to put more weight on one feet, for instance. Secondly, there was a long article in local weekly magazine about sitting and standing, basically saying that the human body will adapt to whatever condition there is. For sitting, this means the muscles etc. will eventually "freeze"; the only way how to fight that is constantly subject the body to change in posture.

locust101 5y ago

Which chair do you have?