6 ms·

Since they claim a quarter of patients are showing symptoms and one of those is depression - how do they separate the out the effect of the de facto criminaliza

Since they claim a quarter of patients are showing symptoms and one of those is depression - how do they separate the out the effect of the de facto criminalization of social activity, an innate human behavior ingrained in our DNA after millions of years of evolution? You'd get significant depression in solitary confinement too.

FiReaNG3L 5y ago
No idea why you're getting downvoted - they have no control group and as you say there's 'depression' in their symptoms they count for. I'm pretty sure 'depression' (which I'm sure they don't count as clinically depressed, but 'im feeling more depressed') went up significantly in the whole population last year. Also PLoS one is basically not peer reviewed - they accept every paper after a short review.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  That part is fine but the part where he instead diagnoses everyone with having been driven crazy by the (by implication misguided) coronavirus response is not really thoughtful in my opinion.
  - abystander 5y ago
    > the part where he instead diagnoses everyone with having been driven crazy [...] is not really thoughtful I said you could expect "significant" depression if there's de facto (in some countries de jure) criminalizing of social activity. I think you're the one who's not being thoughtful about characterizing arguments here. I believe the policy is often misguided/short-sighted but I never said that, you're extrapolating that valid criticism of the policy would be a discredit for officials.
- buu700 5y ago
  No idea why you're getting downvoted Speculation: conflation of his reasonable and factual statement with the ostensibly similar far-right talking point that the cure (social distancing) is worse than the disease.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    > far-right talking point Expressing skepticism surrounding the efficiency of social distancing, masks, "non essential business" and all these lockdowns is not a "far right" talking point. None of our response was in any playbook for this level of threat. We threw out all our pandemic planning in a fit on hysteria and panic. To this day we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all, let alone enough to justify their social costs. Same with social distancing or even masks for that matter. The fact that all this can be considered an uncontrolled experiment on unwilling participants is not "far right" thinking.
    - CarelessExpert 5y ago
      > Expressing skepticism surrounding the efficiency of social distancing, masks, "non essential business" and all these lockdowns is not a "far right" talking point. You're absolutely right. This kind of misinformation isn't limited to the far right. > To this day we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all, LOL, what? This is a truly astonishingly statement. Literally every place that instituted lockdowns saw a drop in COVID transmission, and every place that reduced or eliminated lockdowns saw an increase. This isn't even controversial. It's an application of the basic germ theory of infectious transmission. You can't seriously be making this claim in good faith, can you?
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        I am absolutely making this claim in good faith. Where is your studies showing these restrictions worked well enough to justify their immense costs to society? They don’t exist. To date I’ve yet to see a single cost benefit analysis done for any of this. It simply wasn’t allowed to be done… you’d get shouted down by the mob. It worries me greatly how little critical thinking has been applied to the last 17+ months. It’s appeals to authority all the way down. Show me the proof this stuff worked… and even then we didn’t know it would work going in, which makes it incredibly ethically (and morally) challenged. The last 17 months have shown me the depths of what humanity can do when gripped with fear and hysteria… it is pretty terrifying.
- CarelessExpert 5y ago
  Because the entire comment is clearly phrased to be antagonistic? "de facto criminalization of social activity"? Are they trying to troll people? Because that's how you troll people.
  - abystander 5y ago
    What would the average pro-lockdown person say if someone hosted a party or even got together with someone for coffee without a mask? They'd be calling for jail. I've heard this enough throughout the pandemic.
- msamwald 5y ago
  > Also PLoS one is basically not peer reviewed - they accept every paper after a short review. That is absolutely not true, PLOS ONE has proper peer-review, their review guidelines just focus on technical soundness and de-emphasize subjective noteworthiness. (As a personal anecdote, I managed to get one of my papers rejected from PLOS ONE once...)
TuringNYC 5y ago
I was about to say this also -- I haven't been to the gym for over a year and haven't done any real weight training or group exercise for this whole time in lockdown. It would be hard for me to separate the effect of that from long COVID, curious how the study is controlling for this factor.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  I want to ask the commenters in this thread who have long covid if they are overweight/obese or have a medical condition. But... I don't want to get flagged.
  - ljf 5y ago
    Hey can only talk for my wife (got covid late March 2020) 40yo, not over weight, was at the gym 4 days a week, could squat and deadlift 50kg, very active life. Only 'pre existing' was coeliac disease and very very mild asthma. Like barely ever took a blue inhaler but had one in the house. Other that That fit and healthy and very active. Inital covid as bad, but after 2 weeks was nearly back to normal, then breathing got worse, heart rate all over the place, numbness, brain fog etc. Only just getting back to normal now but still not ready for exercise yet.
    - sethammons 5y ago
      all the same on my end and for my wife. My wife was training for crossfit regional games a couple years ago, and I wasn't a slouch myself. We also have sleeping issues, heart rate all over, numbness, brain fog. Exercise is such a struggle. We both tested negative for covid antibodies. :shrug:
caturopath 5y ago
> how do they separate the out the effect of the de facto criminalization of social activity, an innate human behavior ingrained in our DNA after millions of years of evolution? Presumably you can tease that out to some degree by comparing to folks who didn't have COVID.

FiReaNG3L 5y ago

No idea why you're getting downvoted - they have no control group and as you say there's 'depression' in their symptoms they count for. I'm pretty sure 'depression' (which I'm sure they don't count as clinically depressed, but 'im feeling more depressed') went up significantly in the whole population last year. Also PLoS one is basically not peer reviewed - they accept every paper after a short review.

emodendroket 5y ago
That part is fine but the part where he instead diagnoses everyone with having been driven crazy by the (by implication misguided) coronavirus response is not really thoughtful in my opinion.
- abystander 5y ago
  > the part where he instead diagnoses everyone with having been driven crazy [...] is not really thoughtful I said you could expect "significant" depression if there's de facto (in some countries de jure) criminalizing of social activity. I think you're the one who's not being thoughtful about characterizing arguments here. I believe the policy is often misguided/short-sighted but I never said that, you're extrapolating that valid criticism of the policy would be a discredit for officials.
buu700 5y ago
No idea why you're getting downvoted Speculation: conflation of his reasonable and factual statement with the ostensibly similar far-right talking point that the cure (social distancing) is worse than the disease.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  > far-right talking point Expressing skepticism surrounding the efficiency of social distancing, masks, "non essential business" and all these lockdowns is not a "far right" talking point. None of our response was in any playbook for this level of threat. We threw out all our pandemic planning in a fit on hysteria and panic. To this day we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all, let alone enough to justify their social costs. Same with social distancing or even masks for that matter. The fact that all this can be considered an uncontrolled experiment on unwilling participants is not "far right" thinking.
  - CarelessExpert 5y ago
    > Expressing skepticism surrounding the efficiency of social distancing, masks, "non essential business" and all these lockdowns is not a "far right" talking point. You're absolutely right. This kind of misinformation isn't limited to the far right. > To this day we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all, LOL, what? This is a truly astonishingly statement. Literally every place that instituted lockdowns saw a drop in COVID transmission, and every place that reduced or eliminated lockdowns saw an increase. This isn't even controversial. It's an application of the basic germ theory of infectious transmission. You can't seriously be making this claim in good faith, can you?
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      I am absolutely making this claim in good faith. Where is your studies showing these restrictions worked well enough to justify their immense costs to society? They don’t exist. To date I’ve yet to see a single cost benefit analysis done for any of this. It simply wasn’t allowed to be done… you’d get shouted down by the mob. It worries me greatly how little critical thinking has been applied to the last 17+ months. It’s appeals to authority all the way down. Show me the proof this stuff worked… and even then we didn’t know it would work going in, which makes it incredibly ethically (and morally) challenged. The last 17 months have shown me the depths of what humanity can do when gripped with fear and hysteria… it is pretty terrifying.
CarelessExpert 5y ago
Because the entire comment is clearly phrased to be antagonistic? "de facto criminalization of social activity"? Are they trying to troll people? Because that's how you troll people.
- abystander 5y ago
  What would the average pro-lockdown person say if someone hosted a party or even got together with someone for coffee without a mask? They'd be calling for jail. I've heard this enough throughout the pandemic.
msamwald 5y ago
> Also PLoS one is basically not peer reviewed - they accept every paper after a short review. That is absolutely not true, PLOS ONE has proper peer-review, their review guidelines just focus on technical soundness and de-emphasize subjective noteworthiness. (As a personal anecdote, I managed to get one of my papers rejected from PLOS ONE once...)

TuringNYC 5y ago

I was about to say this also -- I haven't been to the gym for over a year and haven't done any real weight training or group exercise for this whole time in lockdown. It would be hard for me to separate the effect of that from long COVID, curious how the study is controlling for this factor.

deregulateMed 5y ago
I want to ask the commenters in this thread who have long covid if they are overweight/obese or have a medical condition. But... I don't want to get flagged.
- ljf 5y ago
  Hey can only talk for my wife (got covid late March 2020) 40yo, not over weight, was at the gym 4 days a week, could squat and deadlift 50kg, very active life. Only 'pre existing' was coeliac disease and very very mild asthma. Like barely ever took a blue inhaler but had one in the house. Other that That fit and healthy and very active. Inital covid as bad, but after 2 weeks was nearly back to normal, then breathing got worse, heart rate all over the place, numbness, brain fog etc. Only just getting back to normal now but still not ready for exercise yet.
  - sethammons 5y ago
    all the same on my end and for my wife. My wife was training for crossfit regional games a couple years ago, and I wasn't a slouch myself. We also have sleeping issues, heart rate all over, numbness, brain fog. Exercise is such a struggle. We both tested negative for covid antibodies. :shrug:

caturopath 5y ago

> how do they separate the out the effect of the de facto criminalization of social activity, an innate human behavior ingrained in our DNA after millions of years of evolution? Presumably you can tease that out to some degree by comparing to folks who didn't have COVID.