3 ms·

>So as the CDC link shows, the choice is clear: mass vaccination does indeed have rare side effects, but mass infection with the coronavirus (which is the only

by desine 5y ago

>So as the CDC link shows, the choice is clear: mass vaccination does indeed have rare side effects, but mass infection with the coronavirus (which is the only other choice) is absolutely worse. Not sure I agree that it's so easily quantifiable or justifiable. The loss of life due to the virus is tragic, but has been mostly the old and infirm. The vaccination side effects have been rare, but mostly affecting the young and healthy. They're also only a year out in a massive rollout of new biotechnology. New, not in terms of time, but in terms of scale - the mRNA concept has been in labs for 20 years, but it's only been in labs. It's reasonable to suspect that there may be other side effects that have not yet manifested. I'm glad we have the vaccines available for those who need them, and those who want them to feel safer. But if feels hubristic to state with such certainty that mass roll-out, including to children, is guaranteed to be better.

omegaworks 5y ago
>The loss of life due to the virus is tragic, but has been mostly the old and infirm. Why do the old and infirm deserve to die? >the mRNA concept has been in labs for 20 years, but it's only been in labs mRNA therapies have been in clinical trials for over a decade now[1]. 1. https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/evolution-mrna-vaccine-trials-oncology/ https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/evolution-mrna-v...
- desine 5y ago
  I didn't state that the old and infirm deserve to die. I stated that the young seem to be more prone to these side effects, and that quantifying these two against each other is problematic. Yes, clinical trials tend to be done in labs. I'm speaking colloquially here. A clinical trial of a few thousand is not nearly the same as a global push to vaccinate everyone from teenage years up.
  - omegaworks 5y ago
    >I didn't state that the old and infirm deserve to die. When the few-in-a-million chance of complications for the young and fit are more tragic than the 610x rate of horrible, suffocating, isolated death of the old and infirm[1], you're making space for eugenics. 1. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi...
    - desine 5y ago
      >you're making space for eugenics. With an ability to reach that long, you should be a boxer or basketball player. Everything in this life is a compromise, a finding of balance between trade offs. I'm not about to support mandating that teenagers get a novel medical treatment. There are risks. You can cite whatever studies you want telling me it's safe, it does not matter. We are still finding new side effects of these vaccines. The trend has not plateaued, or dropped off, which implies that there may be more to be discovered in the future. There are countless ways we can reduce the death, suffering, and pain in this world, but we must balance them against the ideals we have of personal freedom, responsibility, and trust. You would save more lives making breathalyzer lockouts mandatory in all new cars, or outlawing consumption of alcohol in restaurants and bars. You would save more lives by outlawing cigarettes nationwide. You would save more lives by outlawing backyard swimming pools. But these are not battles against your perceived political enemies on the internet, so you say nothing. You wait until some crazy anti-science (probably right-wing) nutjob posts in a covid thread that maybe we're moving a bit too fast on things, and you leap to accusations of cleaning the gene pool.

by desine 5y ago

omegaworks 5y ago

>The loss of life due to the virus is tragic, but has been mostly the old and infirm. Why do the old and infirm deserve to die? >the mRNA concept has been in labs for 20 years, but it's only been in labs mRNA therapies have been in clinical trials for over a decade now[1]. 1. https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/evolution-mrna-vaccine-trials-oncology/ https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/evolution-mrna-v...

desine 5y ago
I didn't state that the old and infirm deserve to die. I stated that the young seem to be more prone to these side effects, and that quantifying these two against each other is problematic. Yes, clinical trials tend to be done in labs. I'm speaking colloquially here. A clinical trial of a few thousand is not nearly the same as a global push to vaccinate everyone from teenage years up.
- omegaworks 5y ago
  >I didn't state that the old and infirm deserve to die. When the few-in-a-million chance of complications for the young and fit are more tragic than the 610x rate of horrible, suffocating, isolated death of the old and infirm[1], you're making space for eugenics. 1. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi...
  - desine 5y ago
    >you're making space for eugenics. With an ability to reach that long, you should be a boxer or basketball player. Everything in this life is a compromise, a finding of balance between trade offs. I'm not about to support mandating that teenagers get a novel medical treatment. There are risks. You can cite whatever studies you want telling me it's safe, it does not matter. We are still finding new side effects of these vaccines. The trend has not plateaued, or dropped off, which implies that there may be more to be discovered in the future. There are countless ways we can reduce the death, suffering, and pain in this world, but we must balance them against the ideals we have of personal freedom, responsibility, and trust. You would save more lives making breathalyzer lockouts mandatory in all new cars, or outlawing consumption of alcohol in restaurants and bars. You would save more lives by outlawing cigarettes nationwide. You would save more lives by outlawing backyard swimming pools. But these are not battles against your perceived political enemies on the internet, so you say nothing. You wait until some crazy anti-science (probably right-wing) nutjob posts in a covid thread that maybe we're moving a bit too fast on things, and you leap to accusations of cleaning the gene pool.