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I truly can't comprehend people who have this ideological hatred or disdain of business, profit and capitalism. Because not all CEOs are Richard Branson, who f

by warent 5y ago

I truly can't comprehend people who have this ideological hatred or disdain of business, profit and capitalism. Because not all CEOs are Richard Branson, who for all his flaws is known for having a big, playful, loving heart. The loyalty he cultivates is fierce because he genuinely cares about people. He famously caught one of his first employees stealing from him (literally pocketing money out of a cash register!). He didn't fire him, he forgave him and used it as a teaching opportunity. He is the exception, not the rule. It is a fairly well known statistic that the rate of sociopathy we see in CEOs is much higher than the average population, potentially by orders of magnitude. The reason is simple enough. For-profit businesses don't have any rule or ideal to care about humans beyond what it takes to make a profit. If it is ever found to be profitable to throw bodies into the furnace to keep the wheels churning then many members of a company will do just that, even people who aren't pathological, because power and money corrupts many people who even have the best intent. This as opposed to non-profit or governments, which is a very different set of ideals, established for people, not for profit, by definition. This isn't to say that these are perfectly implemented, pure, un-corrupted. Fair from it. The point is that at the very least the ideals exist.

robomartin 5y ago
> If it is ever found to be profitable to throw bodies into the furnace to keep the wheels churning then many members of a company will do just that Sorry, that's just crazy. Of the billions of businesses that exist world wide, the only "business" that has ever gone that far has been government, the Nazi's. This reduction of all business under the sky to a single variable, where everyone is evil as a function of profit is just silly. Also, businesses don't have to be outwardly visible in their kindness like Branson in order to be a force for good in the community. These are stories that never make the mainstream and yet, on the aggregate, are much larger than anything Branson has done on this front. A simple local example: Our largest boat dealer/manufacturer in the area pays for and supports all local aquatic programs for kids. > This as opposed to non-profit or governments The day you can name ten such organizations who have lifted billions of people out of poverty is the day this statement stops being silly. Until then. No. It's a fantasy. Sure, the ideals exist. Great. They have done nothing (or very little) for the billions of people who have improved their lives because entrepreneurs, large, medium and small, have risked life, limb and treasure to chase a dream and, yes, profit. Again, every time anyone has these thoughts they need to look around the room, what they are typing on, where they live and everything that has touched their lives (and, in some cases, kept them alive) and come to the realization that this stuff was not the product of a benevolent king, government or non-profit. So, how about we are a little honest about this?
- warent 5y ago
  You seem to be interpreting what I'm saying literally. No, I don't believe that businesses literally have furnaces in which they throw humans. It is a metaphor. Nobody said "everyone is evil as a function of profit." Where is this coming from? You seem deeply affected by this for some reason, and it's pretty difficult to have a conversation from a place where my message is being this severely caricaturized and distorted. Not seeing a way forward with this discussion until we can make it a little less personal.
- adamcstephens 5y ago
  > Sorry, that's just crazy. Of the billions of businesses that exist world wide, the only "business" that has ever gone that far has been government, the Nazi's. How many people did cigarettes bring an early death to, while the tobacco companies hid and fought the evidence that they're awful for health? How is that appreciably different than literal gas chambers?
  - warent 5y ago
    Same for lead companies too. They knew it was making people sick and killing them, but they hired people to publish bogus research and keep selling it.

by warent 5y ago

robomartin 5y ago

> If it is ever found to be profitable to throw bodies into the furnace to keep the wheels churning then many members of a company will do just that Sorry, that's just crazy. Of the billions of businesses that exist world wide, the only "business" that has ever gone that far has been government, the Nazi's. This reduction of all business under the sky to a single variable, where everyone is evil as a function of profit is just silly. Also, businesses don't have to be outwardly visible in their kindness like Branson in order to be a force for good in the community. These are stories that never make the mainstream and yet, on the aggregate, are much larger than anything Branson has done on this front. A simple local example: Our largest boat dealer/manufacturer in the area pays for and supports all local aquatic programs for kids. > This as opposed to non-profit or governments The day you can name ten such organizations who have lifted billions of people out of poverty is the day this statement stops being silly. Until then. No. It's a fantasy. Sure, the ideals exist. Great. They have done nothing (or very little) for the billions of people who have improved their lives because entrepreneurs, large, medium and small, have risked life, limb and treasure to chase a dream and, yes, profit. Again, every time anyone has these thoughts they need to look around the room, what they are typing on, where they live and everything that has touched their lives (and, in some cases, kept them alive) and come to the realization that this stuff was not the product of a benevolent king, government or non-profit. So, how about we are a little honest about this?

warent 5y ago
You seem to be interpreting what I'm saying literally. No, I don't believe that businesses literally have furnaces in which they throw humans. It is a metaphor. Nobody said "everyone is evil as a function of profit." Where is this coming from? You seem deeply affected by this for some reason, and it's pretty difficult to have a conversation from a place where my message is being this severely caricaturized and distorted. Not seeing a way forward with this discussion until we can make it a little less personal.
adamcstephens 5y ago
> Sorry, that's just crazy. Of the billions of businesses that exist world wide, the only "business" that has ever gone that far has been government, the Nazi's. How many people did cigarettes bring an early death to, while the tobacco companies hid and fought the evidence that they're awful for health? How is that appreciably different than literal gas chambers?
- warent 5y ago
  Same for lead companies too. They knew it was making people sick and killing them, but they hired people to publish bogus research and keep selling it.