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That may be the least of our worries. In the wealthy countries that now have universal access to free vaccines, we're seeing large populations that can't crack

That may be the least of our worries. In the wealthy countries that now have universal access to free vaccines, we're seeing large populations that can't crack 50% of people vaccinated. So, even if we had an infinite supply of vaccines we could beam down from space to anyone on the planet who wanted it, we'd still run into the problem of too many people not wanting it.

msandford 5y ago
What bums me out the most is that it doesn't seem like it's even ok to ask why some people don't seem to want it and to figure out if they can be convinced. I'm sure some folks have ideological opposition but it seems like a lot of the discussion is about how they're bad people for not doing what they're told to or supposed to want to. I don't feel like I have ever convinced anyone of anything by arguing to them that they're wrong. Most of the time when you change someone's mind it's by listening deeply and figuring out what they really mean or really want rather than what they're saying. I'm sure I've missed something important but I can't shake the feeling that the vaccine debate is just another battle in the growing war of political polarization.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
Yep it's depressing here in Ontario -- while the overall vaccination rates are pretty good (nearing 70% of total pop for first dose and 50% for fully) the vaccination rates of people aged 12-39 are pretty bad at 68% for first dose and for 12-29 only 66% and the supply of vaccines is starting to pile up. Meanwhile 95% of seniors 70+ have been first dosed (and 82% fully). Basically young people aren't getting it at the same rate as the elderly, and not because it's not available. Daily first dose rates have plummeted as the supply has increased.
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  > Basically young people aren't getting it at the same rate as the elderly, and not because it's not available. Wow, it's as though they have an entirely different risk calculus from the elderly.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    If you're thinking about only yourself, sure.
    - AndrewBissell 5y ago
      Perhaps they're a parent concerned with staying healthy to take care of their family. More to the point, if we're acknowledging that young people's concerns about risks from the vaccine exceeding those of the virus are legitimate, but should be set aside for the sake of protecting those at greater risk, it would be the first vaccine in history people were expected to receive on such terms.
- omegaworks 5y ago
  Does Canada offer universal sick leave? Can young people afford to miss two days of work if they have fatigue after dose 2?
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    Yes, after a lot of lobbying, as of Apr 29 Ontario now has 3 days paid sick leave for vaccination, vaccination related illness, and COVID itself: https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-worker-income-protection-benefit https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-worker-income-protectio... That said, symptoms are milder the younger you are is what I've seen. My 13 year old and the kids of all our friends had at most a headache and mild fatigue after dose 2. My wife and I (45/46) were knocked on our ass for two days for both our AstraZeneca (1st) and Pfizer (mixed regimen 2nd) doses.

msandford 5y ago

What bums me out the most is that it doesn't seem like it's even ok to ask why some people don't seem to want it and to figure out if they can be convinced. I'm sure some folks have ideological opposition but it seems like a lot of the discussion is about how they're bad people for not doing what they're told to or supposed to want to. I don't feel like I have ever convinced anyone of anything by arguing to them that they're wrong. Most of the time when you change someone's mind it's by listening deeply and figuring out what they really mean or really want rather than what they're saying. I'm sure I've missed something important but I can't shake the feeling that the vaccine debate is just another battle in the growing war of political polarization.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

Yep it's depressing here in Ontario -- while the overall vaccination rates are pretty good (nearing 70% of total pop for first dose and 50% for fully) the vaccination rates of people aged 12-39 are pretty bad at 68% for first dose and for 12-29 only 66% and the supply of vaccines is starting to pile up. Meanwhile 95% of seniors 70+ have been first dosed (and 82% fully). Basically young people aren't getting it at the same rate as the elderly, and not because it's not available. Daily first dose rates have plummeted as the supply has increased.

AndrewBissell 5y ago
> Basically young people aren't getting it at the same rate as the elderly, and not because it's not available. Wow, it's as though they have an entirely different risk calculus from the elderly.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  If you're thinking about only yourself, sure.
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    Perhaps they're a parent concerned with staying healthy to take care of their family. More to the point, if we're acknowledging that young people's concerns about risks from the vaccine exceeding those of the virus are legitimate, but should be set aside for the sake of protecting those at greater risk, it would be the first vaccine in history people were expected to receive on such terms.
omegaworks 5y ago
Does Canada offer universal sick leave? Can young people afford to miss two days of work if they have fatigue after dose 2?
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  Yes, after a lot of lobbying, as of Apr 29 Ontario now has 3 days paid sick leave for vaccination, vaccination related illness, and COVID itself: https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-worker-income-protection-benefit https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-worker-income-protectio... That said, symptoms are milder the younger you are is what I've seen. My 13 year old and the kids of all our friends had at most a headache and mild fatigue after dose 2. My wife and I (45/46) were knocked on our ass for two days for both our AstraZeneca (1st) and Pfizer (mixed regimen 2nd) doses.