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Cue the usual string of anti-money, anti-profits, anti-capitalism, anti-business comments. Frankly, I continue to find this ideology perplexing. Particularly

Cue the usual string of anti-money, anti-profits, anti-capitalism, anti-business comments. Frankly, I continue to find this ideology perplexing. Particularly at a time when, quite literally, everyone reading this likely owes their very lives to the fruits of capitalism. Before you say "Government funded the vaccines!". Sure. And the companies that were ready --with technology, know-how, people, equipment, laboratories, systems, software, etc.-- were ready, at that precise moment in time, because of decades upon decades of developing products for profit. From the pharmaceutical companies to the makers of the chips in the machines they used to do the work to the machining equipment that manufactured the components of the lab equipment and the injection molding systems that made the plastic parts and the computers software engineers used to write the code that ran all of it. And more. Much more. Quite literally, from birth until you the moment you are sitting in front of your computer reading this comment, everything that has touched your life and surrounds you has been the product of capitalism. Need I list it all? Imagine everything in that hospital where you were born. From the very materials and components used to construct the building to the equipment in the rooms, the drugs and the accumulated knowledge stemming from decades of advancements. And now, today, everything on your desk, the room you are in, your home, office, car and more. All of it is the fruit of capitalism. Which, from one perspective, is people at all levels --from small entrepreneur to multi-billionaires-- risking their money and reputation to go after a dream or a need. And that's how we've pushed forward. Is capitalism and for-profit enterprise the best? Who knows? Likely not. Yet it is the best humanity has come up with so far. And the results are hard to argue against. The standard of living of the average person in the world has risen considerably --and continues to do so-- for centuries. Nothing has elevated more people out of poverty than this approach. Yes, we still have more work ahead of us, but the solution isn't to hand everyone fish. The solution is to collectively solve problems through risk-taking and, yes, profit motive. We have mountains of evidence to show that this approach is the best way to raise people from poverty. I truly can't comprehend people who have this ideological hatred or disdain of business, profit and capitalism. At a very minimum the hypocrisy that is their very lives runs far, deep and thick. Now, if they all rejected the products of capitalism and for-profit business and lived in an ideologically pure condition where they lived their lives where their mouths tend to go, well, then they would at least deserve some respect for not being hypocrites. Richard Branson risked it all. Not just his money. His life. He has it all. And yet he strapped himself into a rocket. None of his critics (or critics of capitalism) would even consider being inconvenienced in support of their ideology, much less risk their lives for it.

tinktank 5y ago
> Cue the usual string of anti-money, anti-profits, anti-capitalism, anti-business comments. It's perfectly reasonable to support something and to be critical of it. It could be argued this is how most progress happens -- by critically evaluating, changing and continuing to do so. Also, the thread seems pretty tame -- not sure what you're reading but it's mostly on-point.
ModernMech 5y ago
> Quite literally, from birth until you the moment you are sitting in front of your computer reading this comment, everything that has touched your life and surrounds you has been the product of capitalism. Need I list it all? You could make the same argument during feudal times. "All you see before you is because of the king! Give praise to the king for all you have!" But in reality, everything you would care to list is a product of worker labor, not capitalism or capitalists. It's the worker who deserves our praise and attention -- and especially the rewards of our modern time -- not Richard Branson and people like him.
- robomartin 5y ago
  You are kidding, right? Compare the standard of living of the average person when, as you say, everything was provided by the one and only ruler to BILLIONS of people being elevated by capitalism. As I said, not perfect by any means, but nothing anyone has come-up with has ever come close.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    Again, this same argument could have been made during feudal times. "Look at your standard of living and how great it is! Do not be envious of the king's standard of living, for you have only him to thank for your material comfort. Instead, be thankful you do not have to live like your ancestors, who were slaughtered and raped and starved to death. The king has protected you and your family from slaughter and rape and provides you food and shelter. This system is not perfect, but nothing anyone has come up with has ever come close to the greatness of our king and what he has done for you." It's not persuasive. > when, as you say, everything was provided by the one and only ruler I did not say that. In fact, during feudal times everything was still provided by workers. Workers farmed food, raised families, built houses, served in the armies, and did the work required to run society. Without workers society would collapse. Without kings (or billionaires, our modern kings), society would barely notice their absence. > As I said, not perfect by any means, but nothing anyone has come-up with has ever come close. I noticed in another reply you said Today the average worker in most economies has as much freedom as they want (they can quit and go get a different job and even make more money) and tons of protections (rightly so)." You know where those protections came from, right? They didn't come from capitalists of the time, that's for sure. They came from unionized laborers demanding and fighting, literally for those protections, with many paying the ultimate price [1], when capitalists responded with guns and bombs. Capitalists today still fight unions tooth and nail, because they know that when unions have power, workers get protections (rightly so). This idea capitalism is the best humanity has to offered is proven wrong by the improvements labor (not capitalists) have made to the system. Labor has more to say about how to improve the system. If they have improved it in the past, as you admit by calling their improvements "right", why are you not open to their ideas to improve it further? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars

tinktank 5y ago

> Cue the usual string of anti-money, anti-profits, anti-capitalism, anti-business comments. It's perfectly reasonable to support something and to be critical of it. It could be argued this is how most progress happens -- by critically evaluating, changing and continuing to do so. Also, the thread seems pretty tame -- not sure what you're reading but it's mostly on-point.

ModernMech 5y ago

> Quite literally, from birth until you the moment you are sitting in front of your computer reading this comment, everything that has touched your life and surrounds you has been the product of capitalism. Need I list it all? You could make the same argument during feudal times. "All you see before you is because of the king! Give praise to the king for all you have!" But in reality, everything you would care to list is a product of worker labor, not capitalism or capitalists. It's the worker who deserves our praise and attention -- and especially the rewards of our modern time -- not Richard Branson and people like him.

robomartin 5y ago
You are kidding, right? Compare the standard of living of the average person when, as you say, everything was provided by the one and only ruler to BILLIONS of people being elevated by capitalism. As I said, not perfect by any means, but nothing anyone has come-up with has ever come close.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  Again, this same argument could have been made during feudal times. "Look at your standard of living and how great it is! Do not be envious of the king's standard of living, for you have only him to thank for your material comfort. Instead, be thankful you do not have to live like your ancestors, who were slaughtered and raped and starved to death. The king has protected you and your family from slaughter and rape and provides you food and shelter. This system is not perfect, but nothing anyone has come up with has ever come close to the greatness of our king and what he has done for you." It's not persuasive. > when, as you say, everything was provided by the one and only ruler I did not say that. In fact, during feudal times everything was still provided by workers. Workers farmed food, raised families, built houses, served in the armies, and did the work required to run society. Without workers society would collapse. Without kings (or billionaires, our modern kings), society would barely notice their absence. > As I said, not perfect by any means, but nothing anyone has come-up with has ever come close. I noticed in another reply you said Today the average worker in most economies has as much freedom as they want (they can quit and go get a different job and even make more money) and tons of protections (rightly so)." You know where those protections came from, right? They didn't come from capitalists of the time, that's for sure. They came from unionized laborers demanding and fighting, literally for those protections, with many paying the ultimate price [1], when capitalists responded with guns and bombs. Capitalists today still fight unions tooth and nail, because they know that when unions have power, workers get protections (rightly so). This idea capitalism is the best humanity has to offered is proven wrong by the improvements labor (not capitalists) have made to the system. Labor has more to say about how to improve the system. If they have improved it in the past, as you admit by calling their improvements "right", why are you not open to their ideas to improve it further? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars