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Isn't the post you're replying to evidence against this? They have financial independence, and now they are finding meaningful work. I agree that we need a sens

by vlunkr 5y ago

Isn't the post you're replying to evidence against this? They have financial independence, and now they are finding meaningful work. I agree that we need a sense of purpose for happiness/mental health, but why does that have to be "working for the man?".

mgh2 5y ago
Why is "working for the man" so bad when it gives purpose in your life? The article showed how unsatisfied his wife was when she felt as "not going anywhere", I think she was trying to say that she does not feel any sort of progress or growth on any level. As it is torture to keep someone in a room with no stimulation, it is the same with repetition and no change or progress. “Industry, thrift and self-control are not sought because they create wealth, but because they create character.” - Calvin Coolidge We need this aspect for personal development. Metaphor: https://m-g-h.medium.com/disneys-strategy-against-netflix-4dda1e04a82d https://m-g-h.medium.com/disneys-strategy-against-netflix-4d...
- vlunkr 5y ago
  > why is "working for the man" so bad I don't think it is necessarily bad, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other paths to fulfillment. They may not be for you, but they exist. > it is the same with repetition and no change or progress. If someone chooses to retire and immediately enter a vegetative state, that's really their fault.
- bumby 5y ago
  >she does not feel any sort of progress or growth on any level. I think the flip side of this is that many people are so focused on progress and looking forward to the next goal line that they become unable to appreciate the moment and, ironically, happiness is always one more goal away. Recently, I’ve been reading books on Buddhism (specifically how it differs from many Western value systems) and it sheds some light on this. The same goes for the inability to be happy sans constant stimulation.
  - jbmny 5y ago
    Any particular books you'd recommend?
    - bumby 5y ago
      You can absolutely find people more qualified for book recommendations on the subject than me, but here are a few: "Confession of a Buddhist Atheist" by Stephon Batchelor. Useful to me for understanding the cultural context of Buddhism. Insight Meditation by Joseph Goldstein. I just find Goldstein's style the easiest to comprehend in a field that often comes across as frustratingly esoteric Wherever You Go There You Are by Jon Kabat-Zinn. I thought this book is interesting because it draws parallels to Western authors, particularly Thoreau. Sam Harris's "Waking Up" app may also be worth a listen. Besides the actual mindfulness practice, there are a lot of discussions on theory and he has conversations with a variety of people that come to the topic from different perspectives.
    - tomp 5y ago
      The way of Zen by Alan Watts.
- mnowicki 5y ago
  sure there are some people that get meaning from work, and who would have trouble finding meaning outside of work. But I can't agree that 'working for the man' and doing whatever you can do to get by is the best recipe for finding the most meaningful work for most people. In some cases "working for the man" isn't bad and it does give people purpose, but in (imo)the majority of cases, it is bad because it prevents you from using your time to do something you actually find meaningful. I think the few people who are able to find meaning in their jobs are either extremely lucky to have found what they want to do, had the opportunity to pursue it and succeed, and make a decent enough living doing it without the money aspect killing their joy - or they're the type of people who have just 'over-assimilated' to modern life and found a way to extract meaning from their work, but these people would probably be able to find at least as much meaning and happiness in something else if they grew up in a world where working wasn't expected to be almost your entire life.

by vlunkr 5y ago

mgh2 5y ago

Why is "working for the man" so bad when it gives purpose in your life? The article showed how unsatisfied his wife was when she felt as "not going anywhere", I think she was trying to say that she does not feel any sort of progress or growth on any level. As it is torture to keep someone in a room with no stimulation, it is the same with repetition and no change or progress. “Industry, thrift and self-control are not sought because they create wealth, but because they create character.” - Calvin Coolidge We need this aspect for personal development. Metaphor: https://m-g-h.medium.com/disneys-strategy-against-netflix-4dda1e04a82d https://m-g-h.medium.com/disneys-strategy-against-netflix-4d...

vlunkr 5y ago
> why is "working for the man" so bad I don't think it is necessarily bad, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other paths to fulfillment. They may not be for you, but they exist. > it is the same with repetition and no change or progress. If someone chooses to retire and immediately enter a vegetative state, that's really their fault.
bumby 5y ago
>she does not feel any sort of progress or growth on any level. I think the flip side of this is that many people are so focused on progress and looking forward to the next goal line that they become unable to appreciate the moment and, ironically, happiness is always one more goal away. Recently, I’ve been reading books on Buddhism (specifically how it differs from many Western value systems) and it sheds some light on this. The same goes for the inability to be happy sans constant stimulation.
- jbmny 5y ago
  Any particular books you'd recommend?
  - bumby 5y ago
    You can absolutely find people more qualified for book recommendations on the subject than me, but here are a few: "Confession of a Buddhist Atheist" by Stephon Batchelor. Useful to me for understanding the cultural context of Buddhism. Insight Meditation by Joseph Goldstein. I just find Goldstein's style the easiest to comprehend in a field that often comes across as frustratingly esoteric Wherever You Go There You Are by Jon Kabat-Zinn. I thought this book is interesting because it draws parallels to Western authors, particularly Thoreau. Sam Harris's "Waking Up" app may also be worth a listen. Besides the actual mindfulness practice, there are a lot of discussions on theory and he has conversations with a variety of people that come to the topic from different perspectives.
  - tomp 5y ago
    The way of Zen by Alan Watts.
mnowicki 5y ago
sure there are some people that get meaning from work, and who would have trouble finding meaning outside of work. But I can't agree that 'working for the man' and doing whatever you can do to get by is the best recipe for finding the most meaningful work for most people. In some cases "working for the man" isn't bad and it does give people purpose, but in (imo)the majority of cases, it is bad because it prevents you from using your time to do something you actually find meaningful. I think the few people who are able to find meaning in their jobs are either extremely lucky to have found what they want to do, had the opportunity to pursue it and succeed, and make a decent enough living doing it without the money aspect killing their joy - or they're the type of people who have just 'over-assimilated' to modern life and found a way to extract meaning from their work, but these people would probably be able to find at least as much meaning and happiness in something else if they grew up in a world where working wasn't expected to be almost your entire life.